Your Resident Electrician for all your electrical questions!

[Snoopy 67]

Shame -Shame -Shame on you!

 

[Hoyhoy]

Hello,
I am having a tough time trying to find a cheap replacement power supply for the Ecotech MP40wQD. The original one has an output of 32v 2250ma.

v

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

the same circuit as your refrigerator

I thought a refrigerator was exempt from needing a GFCI or GFCI breaker? Maybe I missed a change but I've never put one on a GFCI anything, you're asking for a trip. Then again I always have the refrigerator on a dedicated circuit and make sure it's far enough away from a water source to require GFCI...

 

[aslmx]

Last night we came home from dinner and my Christmas lights were out. I didn't think much about it and figured the timer from Home Depot (China) croaked, melted, blew up, went on fire, was stolen etc.

I checked the timer and it seemed fine. Then I plugged the lights straight into the outlet and still nothing.

This is a newly built house that I didn't build but I noticed the outlet was a GFI (or as you people like to call them GFCIs. In the trade they are just GFIs)

Anyway, I pushed the button to re set it and it still didn't go on.
Now I have been a Master Electrician for fifty years so I know I can figure this out. But first I want something in the refrigerator.

I open the door and the refrigerator is dark. I assume it is dark when I shut the door but it isn't supposed to be dark now. It wasn't that cold either.

I went to High School and everything so I deduced that the outdoor outlet and refrigerator were on the same circuit. It's not really supposed to be, but it isn't illegal. Just stupid.

I go to the circuit breaker panel and see that one breaker is tripped. It is also a GFI breaker, which is also stupid. There is no reason to put a GFI breaker on a circuit with a GFI receptible.

I have been retired quite a while and it may be a new code. If it is, it is stupid and I will tell the guy who wrote that code as soon as I find him. A GFI receptible is very sensitive and if you put that on a circuit with a GFI breaker and then have it on the same circuit as your refrigerator "And" an outdoor outlet in the rain where you will plug in Christmas lights. You are at some time going to come home with no lights on and a dark, warm refrigerator.

Today I will remove that GFI receptible and GFI breaker. Carefully walk over to the dumpster, and throw them both in. Then I will replace both with normal devices.

I hate GFIs unless they are needed like for a fish tank, bathroom or near a sink.

So far I removed about 6 GFI breakers from my panel as I hate stupidity, even if it is a code.
So I guess I could call myself a "Code Breaker"

Did they do a soil evaluation test before installing the ground rod? What color are the trucks for the power company? Somethings not adding up right.

 

[Paul B]

Your correct. Orange I think. Maybe white.
My house has GFIs on everything, they must have had a sale on the things when they built the place because virtually all the breakers in my panel were GFIs, which like I said is stupid and I keep throwing them out.

 

[aslmx]

Your correct. Orange I think. Maybe white.
My house has GFIs on everything, they must have had a sale on the things when they built the place because virtually all the breakers in my panel were GFIs, which like I said is stupid and I keep throwing them out.

Are they arc,gfi combos? I’m on the heavy commercial side and really don’t keep up with the code but I think I heard of a new code that breakers are going to arc, gfi combo.

 

[WVNed]

You may think I am strange. That is okay. Perhaps this explains why. I worked for the phone company. The old big one here. Bell something at first though it went through several convulsions while it died.
Phones run on electricity. They don't turn it off while you work on it. They expect you to get it back on as fast as possible. Yes dial tone is low voltage DC. Ringing voltage isnt. Everyone calls their older mother and father every 5 minutes when the phone is dead. Then there are the T-1 digital lines and control circuits for water towers and stuff.
So you are sitting in a hole in the mud all night in the rain getting the crap shocked out of you. Or you are up on a ladder or climbers getting the crap shocked out of you. The pole conducts, the strand the cable is lashed to conducts, your boots while damp or sweaty conduct. So you accomplish the menial task of putting a cut phone cable back together by a color code while you randomly get shocked...

Induced voltage in a tank? Some rural lines are strung with a 19 gauge wire under power to the place for miles at times. It is supposed to be twisted for common mode rejection. If it isn't you can arc weld with the end of it when you go to hook it up.

I have a tremendous respect for electricity now but I no longer fear it. Pay attention. You only get to touch it wrong once. I know some people that happened to as well.

 

[Paul B]

Are they arc,gfi combos? I’m on the heavy commercial side and really don’t keep up with the code but I think I heard of a new code that breakers are going to arc, gfi combo.

I am not a snowflake and a lot older than the Jiboni's who write the new codes. Those guys don't have to work on the stuff, just design it so they don't have a clue as to what works and what is stupid.
I was also a commercial/industrial construction electrician foreman but I don't think they are arc/gfi combo's and if they are, I will walk faster to the dumpster to throw them out.

VWNed. I started as an electrician in the early 70s and we never turned off the power to work on anything. Now everyone is a Sissy and knows a lawyer so electricians are not allowed to work live.

I rebuilt all the electric rooms in the Chrysler Building in Manhattan and the place was filled with what we called Frankenstein switches. They were huge and to open them you had to get an 8' 2X4 and pry it open while the sparks would fly.

We also had to work on and drill the live bus bars. Those are copper bars about 8" wide and half an inch thick carrying enough power to run a small city at 480 volts. To drill them we had to connect the drill to that bar and cut off the ground of the drill. Then make sure you were not touching any ground or they would have to take you out of there with a sponge. If you dropped the drill there, they would also need a shop vac to remove most of your parts. ;Wideyed

The bus bars hum loudly with power and they are open bus which means they are in free air with no protection around them. The floors in the Chrysler Building were a city block long and the bus bars were ceiling to floor and very old. There was about two feet between the bars and the cement wall and my partner and me were crawling back there with a drop light to work on the thing. There was one small opening through the bars to get out which we were about 20' away.

Our drop light dropped and broke. We stupidly had no flash light and cell phones weren't invented yet.

It was pitch black because those floors don't have windows. We had to crawl the 20' feeling with a pen against the humming copper bars to find the opening, then slither through.
But we are men and not Sissy, Girly men

I did those jobs all the time and also did a lot of work on the Empire State Building and the Trade Center.

Of course we lost quite a few electricians but some jobs are dangerous, get over it.
War is also dangerous and we haven't found a safe way to do it yet.

If you are afraid, design GFI breakers in an office or sell cell phone contracts

 

[aslmx]

I am not a snowflake and a lot older than the Jiboni's who write the new codes. Those guys don't have to work on the stuff, just design it so they don't have a clue as to what works and what is stupid.
I was also a commercial/industrial construction electrician foreman but I don't think they are arc/gfi combo's and if they are, I will walk faster to the dumpster to throw them out.

VWNed. I started as an electrician in the early 70s and we never turned off the power to work on anything. Now everyone is a Sissy and knows a lawyer so electricians are not allowed to work live.

I rebuilt all the electric rooms in the Chrysler Building in Manhattan and the place was filled with what we called Frankenstein switches. They were huge and to open them you had to get an 8' 2X4 and pry it open while the sparks would fly.

We also had to work on and drill the live bus bars. Those are copper bars about 8" wide and half an inch thick carrying enough power to run a small city at 480 volts. To drill them we had to connect the drill to that bar and cut off the ground of the drill. Then make sure you were not touching any ground or they would have to take you out of there with a sponge. If you dropped the drill there, they would also need a shop vac to remove most of your parts. ;Wideyed

The bus bars hum loudly with power and they are open bus which means they are in free air with no protection around them. The floors in the Chrysler Building were a city block long and the bus bars were ceiling to floor and very old. There was about two feet between the bars and the cement wall and my partner and me were crawling back there with a drop light to work on the thing. There was one small opening through the bars to get out which we were about 20' away.

Our drop light dropped and broke. We stupidly had no flash light and cell phones weren't invented yet.

It was pitch black because those floors don't have windows. We had to crawl the 20' feeling with a pen against the humming copper bars to find the opening, then slither through.
But we are men and not Sissy, Girly men

I did those jobs all the time and also did a lot of work on the Empire State Building and the Trade Center.

Of course we lost quite a few electricians but some jobs are dangerous, get over it.
War is also dangerous and we haven't found a safe way to do it yet.

If you are afraid, design GFI breakers in an office or sell cell phone contracts

Well I guess I fall in the sissy category. I’ve saw 2 coworkers meet the Lord from trying to be “real men”. Both killed by 277 volt lights. I’ve never worked anything hot in 30 years and don’t plan to. If it can’t lock out then I’ll walk out. Nothing is that important to work hot.

 

[Paul B]

I also saw quite a few of our guys go like that. Two died in my arms and in the war, you just wouldn't believe what I saw so I won't say it. But some jobs are just dangerous.
Today we are not allowed to work live.

(But I do agree with you)

 

[link81]

Attached is the wiring diagram for my Red Sea Max 250 (this version has 2 transformers, and mine only has 1 transformer) and I would like to wire 1 of the ballasts (probably the middle 2 bulbs) on a separate power supply to have a dusk/dawn effect. Can you help here? Thank you.

are you wanting to add an external transformer to another timer?
do you have an apex or another lighting timer?
Personally, I would probably rip out most of the crap in there, add another transformer, and 2 more power wires. 1 wall plug, 1 transformer, 1 ballast, per light pair. each pair would be controlled individually.

there are other options also, but I suppose, what is your end goal?

 

[link81]

Hello,
I am having a tough time trying to find a cheap replacement power supply for the Ecotech MP40wQD. The original one has an output of 32v 2250ma.

Are you positive that the original is 32V? the inter webs say that it should be 24V?

you should need a 24V DC power supply, with a current rating of AT LEAST 220ma. (more is ok, less is not) with the center of the socket being positive.
the hardest part might be getting the right size barrel connector, there are a few that are close. I used 2.1mmx5.5mm on my MP10's. maybe someone can chime in and say wether the MP10 and MP40 are the same. (I'm assuming they are)

the voltage is CRITICAL, getting that wrong could fry your driver.

 

[Hoyhoy]

Are you positive that the original is 32V? the inter webs say that it should be 24V?

you should need a 24V DC power supply, with a current rating of AT LEAST 220ma. (more is ok, less is not) with the center of the socket being positive.
the hardest part might be getting the right size barrel connector, there are a few that are close. I used 2.1mmx5.5mm on my MP10's. maybe someone can chime in and say wether the MP10 and MP40 are the same. (I'm assuming they are)

the voltage is CRITICAL, getting that wrong could fry your driver.

Yup, the picture I added is actually for the power supply I have for the MP40wQD.
I found this power supply on ebay and bought 2.

32V AC Adapter for EcoTech Marine VorTech MP40wQD-US Propeller Pump Power Cord 753263710017 | eBay

For EcoTech Marine VorTech MP40wQD-US Propeller Pump. Cord Length : 5ft/1.5m. 1 x Ablegrid Free Power Cord. scores from you.The star-scores are very important to us. We always make an effort to keep it upto date.

www.ebay.com

Hopefully it works just as the original!

 

[link81]

Yup, the picture I added is actually for the power supply I have for the MP40wQD.
I found this power supply on ebay and bought 2.

32V AC Adapter for EcoTech Marine VorTech MP40wQD-US Propeller Pump Power Cord 753263710017 | eBay

For EcoTech Marine VorTech MP40wQD-US Propeller Pump. Cord Length : 5ft/1.5m. 1 x Ablegrid Free Power Cord. scores from you.The star-scores are very important to us. We always make an effort to keep it upto date.

www.ebay.com

Hopefully it works just as the original!

ok, maybe they bumped the voltage for the QD model or something, as long as the voltage matces the original and the current (MA) is the same or greater, and the plug is the same, you're fine. I always try and upsize power supplies whenever I can (more MA) it makes them run a little cooler, and last longer IME.

 

[dustinc]

are you wanting to add an external transformer to another timer?
do you have an apex or another lighting timer?
Personally, I would probably rip out most of the crap in there, add another transformer, and 2 more power wires. 1 wall plug, 1 transformer, 1 ballast, per light pair. each pair would be controlled individually.

there are other options also, but I suppose, what is your end goal?

Ultimately my goal is to have the ability for 2 lights on and all 6 lights on. Right now the timer that’s installed is only for all on or all off. I don’t use an apex and planned on just adding an old fashioned timer to the new cord. I just took it apart and attached is the photo. Can I just run a power cord directly from one of the ballasts, or do I need to add another transformer? Thank you for the reply.

 

[Gene Ashton]

Holy cow this is an exhausting thread. I have two electrical questions for the pros.
I have about 1000 watts of components running my tank and everything is plugged into a surge protector and then into a 20A GFCI dedicated to the tank coming out of. Sub panel for the finished basement. Every time I want to unplug a device to work in it I have to unplug it. I’ve seen lots of people in here run the ADJ switches with individual plugs and switches which I really like but see some chatter on how poorly these are and can catch fire and not UL rated. Is there another option or am I being overly cautious. Also I do not have a grounding probe in my sump/tank thinking I wouldn’t need it because the GFCI should be enough so I thought. I have another unused outlet right next to the tank on a different circuit non GFCI out of the main house panel. I feel I should add a grounding prob but does it matter what outlet I use for ground. They should all be tied to the house ground right?
Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[aslmx]

Holy cow this is an exhausting thread. I have two electrical questions for the pros.
I have about 1000 watts of components running my tank and everything is plugged into a surge protector and then into a 20A GFCI dedicated to the tank coming out of. Sub panel for the finished basement. Every time I want to unplug a device to work in it I have to unplug it. I’ve seen lots of people in here run the ADJ switches with individual plugs and switches which I really like but see some chatter on how poorly these are and can catch fire and not UL rated. Is there another option or am I being overly cautious. Also I do not have a grounding probe in my sump/tank thinking I wouldn’t need it because the GFCI should be enough so I thought. I have another unused outlet right next to the tank on a different circuit non GFCI out of the main house panel. I feel I should add a grounding prob but does it matter what outlet I use for ground. They should all be tied to the house ground right?
Thanks in advance for your advice.

I have no experience with the dj switches. I’ve seen lots of people use them so someone should chime in. It doesn’t matter what outlet you plug the ground probe in.

 

[Twitchy]

Need a sanity check... I bought a Pentair smart 40 watt UV sterilizer from BRS back in July... When I built out my new setup, I installed a 20 Amp circuit, and a matching GFCI. Turns out my UV ballast is tripping the GFCI at random... The light still works, I went through the normal stuff, replacing GFCI, making sure things are dry in the lamp, making sure ballast is dry, checking my current draw, etc. my assumption is the ballast has a mild ground fault... I currently have an extension cord running the UV light off of a non GFCI outlet. I reached out to BRS, and they eventually got me in touch with Pentair. The first response from Pentair was to use a non GFCI outlet... I responded that it is near water, and potentially unsafe. they then responded with this.

Good morning Thomas,

Our quality department has advised that you will need to replace your GFCI outlet. You will need to install a Commercial Standard GFCI (class C) which has a higher tolerance than the residential (class A). If you have any questions please let me know.

Is that a thing? My gut says this is a ballast issue... But I am always willing to learn something new. Is this a common issue with GFCIs and Ballasts? Are GFCIs greater then 4ma leakage current allowed to be installed in a residential setting? (I think that's the standard number) What is a class C GFCI? I have never heard of one.... where do I buy such a thing?

 

[link81]

GFCI Defined

What is a GFCI? GFCI stands for Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter OSHA defines GFCI as “A device intended for the protection of personnel that functions to de-energize a circuit or portion of a circuit within an established period of time when a current to ground exceeds some predetermined value...

www.guardiangfci.com

*the link talks about class A vs class C*

their excuse seems fishy to me, I;d be leary about using a class c outlet, maybe a gfci breaker. That will ensure the ground path is reliable and solid.

 

[Brew12]

GFCI Defined

What is a GFCI? GFCI stands for Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter OSHA defines GFCI as “A device intended for the protection of personnel that functions to de-energize a circuit or portion of a circuit within an established period of time when a current to ground exceeds some predetermined value...

www.guardiangfci.com

*the link talks about class A vs class C*

their excuse seems fishy to me, I;d be leary about using a class c outlet, maybe a gfci breaker. That will ensure the ground path is reliable and solid.

I'm with you... seems fishy. This seems like an attempted fix due to a quality/design issue. A ballast should not trip a GFCI. They do generate high voltages but if it is works properly it should not allow current to flow to ground. They may be right on the edge for electrical insulation where it leaks more than 5mA but less than 15mA in which case their recommendation would work.

Not a fan....