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[ID-Reefer]

You have a very unusual setup, so I'm not comfortable making a recommendation. The two breakers tied together should be for a 240V outlet, such as an electric stove. The microwave is required to be on it's own independent circuit. So, it sounds like someone modified the wiring and didn't update the labels. That would have me worried.

I will say that I would never run anything other than a nano aquarium on an outlet that shared a circuit with a kitchen. I wouldn't want a toaster or coffee maker tripping off my aquarium. Those can be large loads and a trip would be expected if your aquarium heaters kicked on while making a pot of coffee. Not a good situation.

Ok thanks for the input. Its a newer house (5 years) that I had built so I don't think anything was modified but perhaps mislabeled. Doesn't explain why its tied together though. Guess Ill have to hire an electrician to check out the situation.

 

[Brew12]

Ok thanks for the input. Its a newer house (5 years) that I had built so I don't think anything was modified but perhaps mislabeled. Doesn't explain why its tied together though. Guess Ill have to hire an electrician to check out the situation.

Yup. The only reason to tie breakers together like that is to create a 240V circuit. I almost suspected that someone changed out an electric range with a gas one. But.. it seems that isn't the case. It's a shame that things aren't labeled correctly. Sorry I can't help more!

 

[Paul B]

The only thing I can see in a house with a 220 breaker (those breakers you have tied together) would be for an air conditioner. A stove would be a much larger breaker like 40 amp.
Like Brew said, someone modified your panel and probably not for the better. It is not exactly dangerous what they did, maybe a little illegal but not to much.

Legally your kitchen outlets are only supposed to run the kitchen but that may not count because you may have two dedicated kitchen circuits for the kitchen besides that one. I can't see it from here and I don't know what they did.

I would "break" apart those two tied together breakers. Usually you can just remove the little bar on them. Then see what each breaker does by itself.

If one of them isn't used for much, or anything important or heavy, you can use it for your tank.
Of course two different breakers would be a better thing for a tank of that size because if it trips, your entire tank will go out but the other circuit can be put on something like the living room circuit which is just lights or something very light.
(Master Electrician 50 Years)

 

[Bugeater281]

Quick question. I ran two new gcfi protected circuits for my aquariums. Currently only one is actually hooked up. My question is concerning code. This obviously varies by location. But I’ve heard so many conflicting things about it. I have an unfinished room in the basement, and this is were the aquarium stuff is. I didn’t like the idea of running metal conduit by saltwater. So I used pvc conduit instead. While I can tear it all out if I ever move, I was just curious what the code is on this.
I’ve heard it’s fine in residential houses, but not in community type structures. While I’ve also heard it’s a flat out no-no anywhere indoors(fumes apparently, yet pvc plumbing is just fine )

 

[ID-Reefer]

Yup. The only reason to tie breakers together like that is to create a 240V circuit. I almost suspected that someone changed out an electric range with a gas one. But.. it seems that isn't the case. It's a shame that things aren't labeled correctly. Sorry I can't help more!

Ok your response led me to check one more thing... Your suspicion was correct. We have a gas range (with gas oven which we never use). We always use the electric wall ovens which are on a different circuit. So besides the 6 outlets, This double breaker circuit powers the gas oven's little light and convection fan. So it was mislabeled. In light of this would you still be worried using the outlet for a larger reef tank? I can always move the toaster as we have another location.

Legally your kitchen outlets are only supposed to run the kitchen but that may not count because you may have two dedicated kitchen circuits for the kitchen besides that one. I can't see it from here and I don't know what they did.

Perhaps since our breakfast nook is adjacent to the kitchen they let it slide? Yes, we have another circuit for other kitchen outlets. Fairly large kitchen.

 

[Paul B]

So I used pvc conduit instead. While I can tear it all out if I ever move, I was just curious what the code is on this.

Here where I live now on Long Island it's perfectly legal and is what is normally used. Where I used to live in the New York City limits it was illegal. I retired 14 years ago so maybe they changed the code now, I don't know but that may vary by county and I don't keep up with it any more.
I would leave it as it is and forget about it.

 

[TN_Huskymama]

A real elementary question. The more electrical items I add into my room, the more concerned I become. I am by far not electric savvy!
My tank is currently in our living room and sharing the circuit with alot of other electrical items. I have five double outlets in the living room all on one circuit as far as I know.
How do I determine the load of all of the electronics on the circuit? and determine if I need a bigger breaker or add an additional circuit?

 

[Paul B]

If you are not tripping the breaker you will be fine. You are allowed ten outlets on a circuit. (In New York anyway). I have 15 outlets on some circuits and I am an electrician. It isn't dangerous because the wiring is rated for your circuit breaker and most outlets in a home are rarely used. They may have a lamp or some ceiling lights or maybe a fan. All those things use minimum power and now that most lighting is LEDs it could be almost nothing.

To see how much "power" or amps you are using on a circuit you need a tool called an ampmeter.
There is one we use in the trade called an "amprobe" and you just clip it around the wires and it tells you how much power you are using.

It would be less than your circuit breaker or it would trip. Of course you could just read the wattage of all the things on the circuit and add them together. Appliances will have that stated on the label. Forget lights, they use almost nothing now.
I think you are worrying for nothing.

 

[Brew12]

Ok your response led me to check one more thing... Your suspicion was correct. We have a gas range (with gas oven which we never use). We always use the electric wall ovens which are on a different circuit. So besides the 6 outlets, This double breaker circuit powers the gas oven's little light and convection fan. So it was mislabeled. In light of this would you still be worried using the outlet for a larger reef tank? I can always move the toaster as we have another location.





Perhaps since our breakfast nook is adjacent to the kitchen they let it slide? Yes, we have another circuit for other kitchen outlets. Fairly large kitchen.

I wouldn't risk it in case I did a bone headed move and plugged in a larger kitchen appliance without thinking about it. Even a stand mixer can pull 800 watts. Of course, it is easier for me since I can pull my own circuits so running a dedicated one (or 2) to a tank is cheap and easy.
If you are confident that wouldn't happen, you should be fine. The nice thing is that if something like that does trip, it means someone is in the house to reset the breaker so no long term risk.

 

[Ray Laneville]

Pipe EMT for Electrical Metalic Tubing, is best, MC "Metal Clad cable" is secongand last is ROMEX. I would run separate neutrals and ground, therefore you need a total of 6 wires if you run EMT, if you rum MC or ROMEX run 2x12/2. Some counties allow you to do electrical work, most require a lisenced electrician to either file or do the work, as always I would advice to use caution because electricity can be deadly.

There is no reason to run separate neutrals and grounds; as long as the circuits are on different phases in the panel, the current of the 2 circuits will cancel each other on the neutral. This could therefore be done a lot easier and cheaper just running a 12/3 romex or MC. BTW, I have been an electrician for 40 years.

 

[siggy]

Its a newer house (5 years) that I had built so I don't think anything was modified but perhaps mislabeled. Doesn't explain why its tied together though

Im thinking they share a neutral.


(From home Improvement Blog)
A multi-wire branch circuit (two hots from different phases sharing 1 neutral) is often found in the kitchen where it powers one receptacle which has the jumper connecting the upper and lower outlets removed. At the panel, both breakers should be bonded together so it is not possible to have one on and one off.

 

[chaostactics]

So this is the email I got from ICM. I don't really need super accurate delay but I expect at least a bit of consistency in total time delayed if the dial is set and not adjusted not 30 seconds to 7 minutes if the pot is about halfway.

 

[Brew12]

Im thinking they share a neutral.


(From home Improvement Blog)
A multi-wire branch circuit (two hots from different phases sharing 1 neutral) is often found in the kitchen where it powers one receptacle which has the jumper connecting the upper and lower outlets removed. At the panel, both breakers should be bonded together so it is not possible to have one on and one off.

I thought that was against code now....

 

[Awesome Dennis]

@ID-Reefer

You have a very unusual setup, so I'm not comfortable making a recommendation. The two breakers tied together should be for a 240V outlet, such as an electric stove. The microwave is required to be on it's own independent circuit. So, it sounds like someone modified the wiring and didn't update the labels. That would have me worried.

By code a 3 wire multi circuit black/red home run needs to be on a 2Pole breaker to ensure no voltage on the neutral. you are also required to have a minimum of 2 circuits.

 

[siggy]

I thought that was against code now....

its coming

 

[Paul B]

There is no reason to run separate neutrals and grounds; as long as the circuits are on different phases in the panel, the current of the 2 circuits will cancel each other on the neutral.

I know it is against the code here on Long Island NY. I wired much of my house like that because I feel it is fine no matter what the code says.

 

[guntercb]

Can you help me with this possible electrical issue? Is it an issue?

InLight mount. Is it safe? Issues?

Hello: I am building a stand and will have a refugium in the stand. I bought an E26 light mount and wired it up and attached it to my DIY stand. The lighting mount could catch water. Do you think this will cause an issue? If so, how best to fix? Here are photos. Overall view: Light mount...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks!

 

[Ray Laneville]

I know it is against the code here on Long Island NY. I wired much of my house like that because I feel it is fine no matter what the code says.

I used to live on LI (Brentwood Native). I don't remember that being the case about the code. But it's been a long time.

 

[Brew12]

@ID-Reefer

By code a 3 wire multi circuit black/red home run needs to be on a 2Pole breaker to ensure no voltage on the neutral. you are also required to have a minimum of 2 circuits.

its coming

I know it is against the code here on Long Island NY. I wired much of my house like that because I feel it is fine no matter what the code says.

Just to follow up on this... I don't have the 2020 NEC yet, I need to order one. But, per the 2017 NEC 200.4 (A) Installation. Neutral conductors shall not be used for more than one branch circuit, for more than one multiwire branch circuit, or for more than one set of ungrounded feeder conductors unless specifically permitted elsewhere in this Code.

The 2 exceptions in the code are in 215.4 for polyphase feeders and 225.7 for outdoor lighting.

I have a collection of NEC's going back to 2004 so I was able to determine that this practice was eliminated in the 2014 NEC.

 

[siggy]

Just to follow up on this... I don't have the 2020 NEC yet, I need to order one. But, per the 2017 NEC 200.4 (A) Installation. Neutral conductors shall not be used for more than one branch circuit, for more than one multiwire branch circuit, or for more than one set of ungrounded feeder conductors unless specifically permitted elsewhere in this Code.

The 2 exceptions in the code are in 215.4 for polyphase feeders and 225.7 for outdoor lighting.

I have a collection of NEC's going back to 2004 so I was able to determine that this practice was eliminated in the 2014 NEC.

Thanks for the heads up. I just checked, Michigan adopted 2017 code last January. Prior to that was 2011