Your Resident Electrician for all your electrical questions!

[thatmanMIKEson]

I keep it separate with a sub panel then it makes power out time quicker with the generator.. tiz the season here in fla...but work your way up to everything start first if you notice an issue then think about power you can always add a cut in box close to your tank.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

It's a 2003 house. I looked at the panel again and the breaker is in a section clearly marked as "Lighting Section", but it also shuts off my outlet. I test the outlet using one of those plugin testers with the 1 red and 2 amber lights.

Change all you lights to led at least also

 

[Sleepydoc]

It's a 2003 house. I looked at the panel again and the breaker is in a section clearly marked as "Lighting Section", but it also shuts off my outlet. I test the outlet using one of those plugin testers with the 1 red and 2 amber lights.

I would be running 3 radion xr15, 2 150w heaters, reef octopus 150, and 2 nero 5s.

If it’s a 2003 house I’d be willing to bet the outlet was added onto the circuit later on. There’s nothing necessarily wrong with it, though, it’s just a bit unusual.

Looking at your equipment, you have 315W max for the lights, 300 for the heater and 60 for the neros. I don’t know how much the skimmer takes but I’d bet less than 50W. You don’t mention what return pump you’re using so I’ll estimate 100W (that may be generous.) That puts you at a total of 825W or just under 7 amps. Even if we’re off a bit you should be fine.

 

[MikeTheNewbie]

Hi all, I’m setting up a new tank and need to connect the Neptune PMUP to it from a remote RODI reservoir. The FMM will be in the sump of the new tank with the PMUP in the remote reservoir. I have a run of about 13m/43’ and are planning to cut the cable and extend it myself. My question is what gauge of wire should I use for the extension?

Neptune only recommend 20’ maximum length using their extension cable (10’ standard cable + 1 10’ extension cable). That is what I have done with my existing tank but the new one is further away. The standard approach is to upsize the cable for longer runs. Do you think 2.5mm gauge wire be sufficient?

Hi, What wire gauge did you end up using for your PMUP?
Do you remember what is the gauge of the original cable?

 

[Sleepydoc]

The PMUP is 24V, 17W, meaning 700mA of current.
The standard cable is 20g. The voltage drop of 20 feet of 20g wire at 700mA is 0.142V.
If you you splice in a larger gauge wire you will have a lower resistance and lower voltage drop. Taking 0.142V as the maximum allowable drop, you can add up to 16 feet of 18g (0.823 mm2) wire or 25 feet of 16g (1.3 mm2) wire to the original 10 foot wire.

Normally, a 5% voltage drop would be acceptable, which would be 1.2V, so Neptune's limit of 0.142V seems pretty conservative. If you're pumping water a long distance they you'll have more tubing resistance and a lower voltage combined with an increased tubing resistance may significantly reduce your flow.

 

[jhuntstl]

So I realized the circuit my tank was on was pretty well loaded. It was sharing a line with a beefy computer, sound system, large fan, and window ac unit. Directly below my tank, in the basement, is a dedicated GFCI outlet with it's own breaker. The idea was to tag in there and run a new outlet up to the tank. I got lazy and instead ran an extension cord through the floor and plugged in directly to the basement outlet. The extension is only about 10ft of 12g. I cut it too length and put on a new plug. I have a GFCI outlet inside my cabinet with a 2ft 12g extension cord that was plugged in the previous outlet, but now is attached to the new extension cord.

So to reiterate. GFCI outlet in cabinet wired to a 2' 12g extension cord. That cord is plugged into a 10' 12g extension cord that plugs directly into the basement GFCI.

Anything wrong with this setup? It's intended to be temporary until I wire a proper outlet, but I know myself. Temporary could mean a couple years. =)

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

You have multiple points of connection, which is always something you should ideally avoid. Meaning, plug connections. Any corrosion or loosening over time means that connection could start to heat up in the areas where the connection is still good, and heating is bad.

Within the area of the tank, moisture contributes to corrosion at connection points. Ideally all receptacles near a tank should have weatherproof covers but that never happens (even mine)

Hard-wiring from one outlet to the next is really not the difficult - just get some romex and a surface mounted box for a new receptacle. Also screw terminal connections are better than the sharkbite push-connections on the back. Again, more surface area = better connection = less propensity for heating

 

[jhuntstl]

You have multiple points of connection, which is always something you should ideally avoid. Meaning, plug connections. Any corrosion or loosening over time means that connection could start to heat up in the areas where the connection is still good, and heating is bad.

Within the area of the tank, moisture contributes to corrosion at connection points. Ideally all receptacles near a tank should have weatherproof covers but that never happens (even mine)

Hard-wiring from one outlet to the next is really not the difficult - just get some romex and a surface mounted box for a new receptacle. Also screw terminal connections are better than the sharkbite push-connections on the back. Again, more surface area = better connection = less propensity for heating

Thanks for the quick response. Pretty much what I expected to hear. I'm in the trades. I know better than to go the lazy route. Would you suggest eliminating the GFCI in the cabinet and just have a single waterproof outlet outside the tank properly wired in the wall?

 

[Beau_B]

Aside from the legality of running the cord through the floor (*cough*) the biggest issue is not to double up on GFCIs. The "original" in the basement is sufficient and protects the downstream/upstairs outlets. GFCIs do not work well in series.

 

[jhuntstl]

Aside from the legality of running the cord through the floor (*cough*) the biggest issue is not to double up on GFCIs. The "original" in the basement is sufficient and protects the downstream/upstairs outlets. GFCIs do not work well in series.

Glad I posted. It would appear my plan to reduce failures is working against me. I'll run a standard outlet up to the tank and throw a waterproof cover on it.

 

[jhuntstl]

That or I could wire a GFCI upstairs but wire it to the top two terminals of the basement GFCI. These would then be two independent GFCIs, correct?

 

[Beau_B]

Yes, hardwire to the LINE terminals (not necessarily the top) and that puts it in parallel and avoids the in-series issues. Only real benefit is saves going downstairs for a reset.

 

[jhuntstl]

Yes, hardwire to the LINE terminals (not necessarily the top) and that puts it in parallel and avoids the in-series issues. Only real benefit is saves going downstairs for a reset.

I get to reuse the GFCI I already purchased, so save a little cash too. Thanks again for your help!

 

[fragit]

I’m having a utility sink with an up flow pump installed in my basement. At the top of the stairs is a light switch that turns on one light at the bottom of the stairs is another switch that also controls that light. I want to change the switch at the bottom of the stairs to an outlet for the up flow pump. The light switch box at the bottom of the stairs only has one wire going to it. Does this mean I can just switch it for an outlet, and the switch at the top of the stairs will turn on and off the light as well as the outlet at the bottom of the stairs?

 

[Sleepydoc]

I’m having a utility sink with an up flow pump installed in my basement. At the top of the stairs is a light switch that turns on one light at the bottom of the stairs is another switch that also controls that light. I want to change the switch at the bottom of the stairs to an outlet for the up flow pump. The light switch box at the bottom of the stairs only has one wire going to it. Does this mean I can just switch it for an outlet, and the switch at the top of the stairs will turn on and off the light as well as the outlet at the bottom of the stairs?

Something doesn’t sound right - a switch box has to have at least 2 wires - one going in and one going out. If there are 2 switches controlling the lights they should be 3-way switches, meaning there should be at least 3 wires.

Regardless, you may or may not be able to put a receptacle in the box at the bottom of the stairs. From your description I would say you can’t. A receptacle box should have a hot/black, a neutral/white and a ground/green/bare wire. If it was wired with metal conduit, the conduit generally serves as the ground and if it’s older than about 50 years it may not have a ground. Often times for light switches, the only wire going to the box is the hot wire from the light box and there’s no neutral so you can‘t use it for a receptacle.

If your house was wired with metal conduit, you may be able to pull a neutral wire, but unless you know what you’re doing with wiring I’d advise hiring an electrician for this.

 

[fragit]

Something doesn’t sound right - a switch box has to have at least 2 wires - one going in and one going out. If there are 2 switches controlling the lights they should be 3-way switches, meaning there should be at least 3 wires.

Regardless, you may or may not be able to put a receptacle in the box at the bottom of the stairs. From your description I would say you can’t. A receptacle box should have a hot/black, a neutral/white and a ground/green/bare wire. If it was wired with metal conduit, the conduit generally serves as the ground and if it’s older than about 50 years it may not have a ground. Often times for light switches, the only wire going to the box is the hot wire from the light box and there’s no neutral so you can‘t use it for a receptacle.

If your house was wired with metal conduit, you may be able to pull a neutral wire, but unless you know what you’re doing with wiring I’d advise hiring an electrician for this.

Sorry I should have clarified by what I meant by one wire. There is one modern electrical wire, it has a black white and green wire as it should.

 

[fragit]

Something doesn’t sound right - a switch box has to have at least 2 wires - one going in and one going out. If there are 2 switches controlling the lights they should be 3-way switches, meaning there should be at least 3 wires.

Regardless, you may or may not be able to put a receptacle in the box at the bottom of the stairs. From your description I would say you can’t. A receptacle box should have a hot/black, a neutral/white and a ground/green/bare wire. If it was wired with metal conduit, the conduit generally serves as the ground and if it’s older than about 50 years it may not have a ground. Often times for light switches, the only wire going to the box is the hot wire from the light box and there’s no neutral so you can‘t use it for a receptacle.

If your house was wired with metal conduit, you may be able to pull a neutral wire, but unless you know what you’re doing with wiring I’d advise hiring an electrician for this.

The switch at the bottom of the stairs has one of each, hot, neutral, and ground.

 

[Sleepydoc]

Sorry I should have clarified by what I meant by one wire. There is one modern electrical wire, it has a black white and green wire as it should.

‘one modern electrical wire?‘ what does that mean? NMB/Romex?

 

[fragit]

‘one modern electrical wire?‘ what does that mean? NMB/Romex?

You know Romex (white sheath) with a black, white and green wire inside.

 

[Sleepydoc]

You know Romex (white sheath) with a black, white and green wire inside.

then you won't be able to use it. In this case the white wire is not a neutral; it's a switched wire returning to the light. It *may* be possible to convert the wire at the light box, but again, I would have an electrician do this since there are other things that may be going on.