Your tank is too new for _______ organism. Why?

Randy Holmes-Farley

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We very often hear folks claim that tanks need to age before being suitable for certain organisms (anemones, corals, etc).

But there's little evidence what (if anything) is changing that is the basis of these assertions, or how general the claims may be for all tanks.

To be clear, I'm not saying this isn't true, but I'm also not sure it is (maybe it is actually aquarist knowledge on how to stably run that system, for example), and if so, what is causing it or if it is always true (folks start tanks in many different ways).

What do you think is the basis of this claim?

A bacteria changing effect? (we know they change, but is there evidence connecting the dots...)
A chemical changing effect? (what chemicals?)
An aquarist knowledge effect?
Something else?
Nothing at all in some cases?
 

Paul B

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I think it's due to the bacteria, viruses and algae all fighting for dominance so the water conditioning benefits from these organisms isn't stable yet which is why IMO new tanks with new water and rock mostly look lousy, have the most problems and the fish commonly get sick.

It's also why new tanks are plagued with nusience algae the most.
 

Tcook

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Would always here that hammer and torches don’t do well in new tanks do to alkalinity swings. True, they don’t do well with swings. But maybe that is in part to inexperience. Here is a hammer that did well as soon as the cycle was over in this stark observation tank. This is 2 months after addition but it looks the same.


4867.jpeg
 

hoffmeyerz

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I feel "all of the above" apply here. If a new tank were setup with enough nutrients in water column and lighting to feed additions like coral or nems then they could be added.
However, time gives the aquarist the opportunity to figure out things like the best nutrient export method, alk and cal consumption rates, trace depletion, etc, as well as give the tank time to develop its own organisms to help filter like sponges, limpets, tube worms, and the like.
So although I'm not against early additions and believe it's possible, time is the mitigating factor for better success. Time to learn the chemistry change rates and what to add, to learn how to react to changes, to develop the stable ecosystem to help balance the tank, and most importantly to enjoy a thriving tank!
 

IntrinsicReef

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as well as give the tank time to develop its own organisms to help filter like sponges, limpets, tube worms, and the like.
Yes. It's like ecological succession after a fire or a forest is clear cut. Fast growing plants take over, then eventually are displaced. Fast growing pineapple sponges dominate a new tank, but slow growing encrusting sponges take a year or so to grow in.
I think this might be part of the live rock/ dry rock debate. Dry rock can eventually be colonized by important organisms with the introduction of coral and bits of rock and sand from mature systems. It just might take some more juggling of nutrients/ lights/ herbivores on the way to maturity.
 

JayM

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I never bought into the “too new” theory. I started adding stuff that would surely die within the first month or so of setting up my tank, and 90% of it did not.

I think it’s probably more of a stability issue. Possibly working too little or too much trying to achieve it
 

Reefer Matt

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I think it boils down to rock choice and the experience of the Reefer. Live rock will usually speed up the cycle and maturity rate of the tank due to the existing life on it. A new Reefer may not have the experience to notice a problem and react accordingly if the livestock don’t do well initially. I believe the suggested time frame for adding coral is on the conservative side to account for impatience and inexperience, but is not evidence based
 

Miami Reef

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I don’t really understood how that rule makes sense. For example, you must wait 6 months before getting an anemone. That never made sense to me.

You can battle most problematic algae with herbivores. Dinos aren’t a given new tanks, but raising nutrients and even using a UV (for ostreopsis) should easily eliminate them.
 
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IntrinsicReef

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I never bought into the “too new” theory. I started adding stuff that would surely die within the first month or so of setting up my tank, and 90% of it did not.

I think it’s probably more of a stability issue. Possibly working too little or too much trying to achieve it
I put corals straight into brand new systems. I like to "cycle" tanks with coral. But these are corals that are aquacultured and relatively hardy. I wouldn't add sensitive specimens or ocean collected coral immediately.
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I put corals straight into brand new systems. I like to "cycle" tanks with coral. But these are corals that are aquacultured and relatively hardy. I wouldn't add sensitive specimens or ocean collected coral immediately.

I was going to point out that quite a few folks set up free standing frag tanks and use them quite rapidly
 

Ryan Souza

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In my experience, when I started with dead rock there was a specific period where my tank went from sucking down p04 fueling dinos/brown algae creating rapid nutrient fluctuations. To growing green algae on glass, coralline popping up everywhere, booming of pods and other life, stable nutrient numbers and success with acros. I do think it has something to do on the bacteria level, but this is anecdotal. In my opinion, I believe I could largely skip this phase with live rock in a new tank.
 

Koty

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Hard to define the actual time but it is clearly the succession of bacterial population. I had quite a few hammers and Elegance corals die until they stoped dying. That happened with some correlation with heavy carbon dosing. Since then, extreme alkalinity, potassium or salinity swings had zero apparent effect.
 

formallydehyde

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Agreeing with the ecological succession views for pest algae that kill corals. I don't think it's exclusive to dry rock (though can certainly be worse there), but also happens on "barren" surfaces in tanks started with live rock. I don't think it's bacterially driven though, I think it's mostly competition with other photosynthetic eukaryotes. I've noticed in my tanks that the worst pest algae colonize "barren" surfaces first and the rocks covered in green microalgae/coralline algae last. They can grow there eventually but it takes longer.

Also yeah, probably knowledge/experience accumulation is the other big thing. This hobby is ridiculously complicated if you want to keep certain organisms, info online is extremely jargon heavy / often contradictory, and it's difficult to parse when equipment/techniques are actually extremely useful (or even necessary) vs. just trying to bleed your account dry.

It's easier to just tell people to wait 2 years or whatever to keep acropora than explain any of that in depth though (note, I have been in the hobby only 2 years, consider my research skills good, and I have failed to keep acropora alive more than like a year so take that for what it's worth lol)
 
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IntrinsicReef

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I was going to point out that quite a few folks set up free standing frag tanks and use them quite rapidly
Corals consume ammonia and they bring along beneficial micro organism hitchhikers. As long as the introduction of fish is timed appropriately to the size of tank, it works great.
 

A_Blind_Reefer

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Not directly related to your quest here, but kinda sorta in a way.

The list of your tank is x blanket statements here are endless….. and the parrots are many.

“What’s your par? Oh it’s 350…that coral won’t live unless it gets 351, change your lights”…I have no clue how I’ve been in the hobby since the nineties and never even touched a par meter.

“What’s your nitrate and phosphate? Oh, 20 and 0.08…that’s horrible! Corals need to be at 10 and 0.03 or they’ll all die!”

“What’s your ph? Holy cow that’s low! No wonder you’re having problems. You must have 8.3 or higher, your tank is dying “.

“What’s your last icp test show? Whaaaat? You don’t do icp? No wonder, you’re an idiot…you must do icp testing every other Tuesday and twice as often on leap year or you’ll never be successful!”

“What’s your flow??”

I think you get the picture. When I started we didn’t have all these rules (or commandments as I can them). Yes there were generalizations, but I never heard so many things (especially numbers) spewed off with such authority. I feel for people asking questions quite often. How do they even begin to sift through all the differing “facts of reefing” responses they get?
 

Ryan Souza

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I do agree with the above in respect to competition and barren surfaces. Every 6 months or so i dose a heavy round of interceptor, which I think disrupts that competition balance and the next couple weeks there is nutrient fluctuations as well random algae that are never present besides that time period. Obviously things right themselves, the algae goes away, and whatever life I killed off repopulates to regain that balance.
 

Cichlid Dad

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I think it's experience and knowledge. At some point you figure out what it takes to get a reef going and how to maintain stability. Add to this by now you know how to recognize problems right at the start and cut them off at the pass. I've done 4 systems now and my last one i added everything from zoa's and Euphyllia garden to Acro with in 2 weeks of putting the tank up. The system before was all new sand, bleached Reef rock and a few pounds of live sand on top of new in the display and live rock in the sump. Same thing. I had it full of SPS and LPS within a week never skipped a beat. My tank journey on R2R tells the hole story. It's kinda embarrassing to go back and see the first system set up, but it's part of my journey as a reefer. Any way just what I think could be completely of base.
 

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