Your tank is too new for _______ organism. Why?

IntrinsicReef

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My answer then, I guess, would be the very finicky, slow growing Acropora. The ones that peel if you look at them wrong. There is a visible stage of a tank where coralline is actively growing. Detritus is being broken down very quickly. And corals are growing at a rapid rate. This is the stage where I feel confident putting in the most sensitive corals. I'm not sure what the specific factors get us to that stage. But it is more a visual observation for me, than something I can test for.
 

BryanM

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I have a feeling that most "too new" stories are started with dry rock and sand. I'm still a newbie to this hobby, but I started with gulf live rock, and I had corals and fish in my tank in 3 weeks without issue.

I gained a lot of experience by reading here and asking questions, and tried to do so before I ran in to issues.
 

X-37B

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From my experience it really comes down to the reefers plan, knowledge, and experience.
I can setup a system and have corals or nems in it within a couple weeks. Check my current build.
This is my rs 170 nem system.
I had nems in within one week.
All quality live rock start.
Tank is 3 months old now with 7 nems a pair of clowns and a file fish. Snails, emerald crabs and hermits added same time.

20250112_134926.jpg
 

SonOfaGoat

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I think it's due to the bacteria, viruses and algae all fighting for dominance so the water conditioning benefits from these organisms isn't stable yet which is why IMO new tanks with new water and rock mostly look lousy, have the most problems and the fish commonly get sick.

It's also why new tanks are plagued with nusience algae the most.
Absolutely. Looking back on my previous tanks, I started with mature liverock filled with life and corals from other reefers. My coral growth was incredible for a new tank. I was also only using treated tap water and had great growth with SPS. I dealt with GHA and some bubble algae but that was mainly because I didn't have anything to eat them. I never dealt with dinos or long battles with cyano or diatoms.

Now my current tank is a pretty AIO red sea, started with dry rock and dry sand. 6 months in dino city. That was 3 months ago and I'm still battling them. But I refuse to take any short cut with a medicated treatment. I've since added a rock from a mature tank with mushrooms to help further seed the tank. I saw many little brittle starts and bristle worms show up after. I've ordered some more corals from a reputable source and won't be dipping them this time. I want the beneficial life and that means maybe the odd pest.
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Corals consume ammonia and they bring along beneficial micro organism hitchhikers. As long as the introduction of fish is timed appropriately to the size of tank, it works great.

Right. So how does that fit into the mantra that tanks need time to develop to hold corals? In my mind, it is evidence that neither the bacteria nor chemical components are active issues in at least that scenario.
 

FernBluffReef

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I put what’s considered an expert level anemone (ritteri) in my new tank at day 30. Tank was started with 100% dry rock and some bacteria and it’s done exceedingly well - darn thing has about outgrowing my 112 gallon display. So I’m not buying the anemone stuff. I think I lot has to do with some level of experience as to my knowledge anemones don’t have any really special water nutrient requirements save stability.

Acros on the other hand. I’ve added test acros to the tank from roughly month 4 or 5 on. At first they die in days. Only until around month 10 and after getting dosing automation running well with traces was I able to keep a couple what are considered easy acros alive. I’m at ~month 14 now and got a small Fiji colony and a stag frag. The Fiji died quickly. The stag is still with me but none of the few acros I have do I ever see polyps so zero extension. The two that have been in the tank since month 10 are slowly growing. Overall I’m not happy with my acro experience and I struggle to understand why
 

IntrinsicReef

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Right. So how does that fit into the mantra that tanks need time to develop to hold corals? In my mind, it is evidence that neither the bacteria nor chemical components are active issues in at least that scenario.
I think grouping all corals together is too general. I'll add some coral ( Soft, LPS, some SPS) immediately. But there is some stage of succession in tanks where I feel comfortable adding the most delicate coral. The stage where you can toss a coral in the sand and in the shade, and it will survive. I don't know how to quantify this. Test results on tanks that kill coral and ones that grow coral often come back similar. My only theory is microorganism and macroorganism succession. Filters feeders like sponges and feather dusters controlling bacterial populations? I'm not sure.
 

Rhetoric

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This is a great question and home run topic. I LOVE seeing veterans Reefers help all hobbyists better understand.

My first tank I learned how to control Nitrates and Phosphates.

My Second tank I learned how to better manage the big 3 (alk/calc/mag)

My third tank I learned more about coral care, placement, and lighting (I added coral directly after cycling)

My 4th tank? When the time comes I will cycle with corals.

Things I know I don't know.
-Never started a tank with any man made rock (but I've started 2 tanks with dry ocean rock)
-Never used a controller
-Never used kalk to control alk/calk
-Never moved a small tank into a bigger tank
-Never done bare bottom
-okay okay I'm a noobie.

Things I know.
-I've got a lot to learn still.
-Aquariums can have coral added very early on with the understanding of core reefing principles.
-You're risking animal life and hard earn money if you don't have practical hands on experience.
-Hands on experience has a learning curve.
 

zheka757

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Wow, some good inputs here, i think these base steps are good for new people starting marine tank. We here often people say go slow! Good reason behind it. Experienced reefers already know what to expect, when starting new tank, they can take shortcuts. Here is a question. Would you recommend new reefer to buy crapload of corals and fish with in first few weeks of starting the tank? No! Why?
 

IntrinsicReef

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Right. So how does that fit into the mantra that tanks need time to develop to hold corals? In my mind, it is evidence that neither the bacteria nor chemical components are active issues in at least that scenario.
I've seen articles on sponges consuming and managing carbon in our closed systems as well. With evidence coming out that excess carbon can trigger bacteria to turn virulent, this might be a clue. A bit above my pay grade though, and difficult for me to understand.
 
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klc

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Not directly related to your quest here, but kinda sorta in a way.

The list of your tank is x blanket statements here are endless….. and the parrots are many.

“What’s your par? Oh it’s 350…that coral won’t live unless it gets 351, change your lights”…I have no clue how I’ve been in the hobby since the nineties and never even touched a par meter.

“What’s your nitrate and phosphate? Oh, 20 and 0.08…that’s horrible! Corals need to be at 10 and 0.03 or they’ll all die!”

“What’s your ph? Holy cow that’s low! No wonder you’re having problems. You must have 8.3 or higher, your tank is dying “.

“What’s your last icp test show? Whaaaat? You don’t do icp? No wonder, you’re an idiot…you must do icp testing every other Tuesday and twice as often on leap year or you’ll never be successful!”

“What’s your flow??”

I think you get the picture. When I started we didn’t have all these rules (or commandments as I can them). Yes there were generalizations, but I never heard so many things (especially numbers) spewed off with such authority. I feel for people asking questions quite often. How do they even begin to sift through all the differing “facts of reefing” responses they get?
OMG these are my thoughts word for word! There are so many "absolute rules" that are thrown around it's sometimes comical.
 

Auru

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There was a study called:
"Culturing reef-building corals on a laboratory dish: a simple experimental platform for stony corals"
where they grew P. damicornis and Stylophora pistillata, Acropora tumida, Porites lobata, and Merulinidae: Favites pentagona in petri dishes containing 60 mL saltwater over the course of a few months with complete water changes every 3 days. Pretty sterile environment but the corals were measured and showed growth.
 

ingchr1

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Maybe if organisms were added sooner and of quantity they would take up the real estate before other unwanted organisms do? Or at least to a lesser extent than what may be seen in a bare tank.
 

X-37B

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I have shared this system many times. Zero to 10 month aio 20g nano. Again live rock from the other systems I was running at the time.
Basically the system was mature, imo, from the start.
I believe anyone can do this if they understand how to maintain a system. To me it is and has been a pretty straight forward process.
I have done the same with my current 150, 50, and 35.
I do not have all the answers but I do have many years of experience that helps, again imo.
20220126_162523.jpg
20220926_094455.jpg
 

sixty_reefer

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I’m from the thought that stability is the main reason.
If a system is started with dry rock it will go through many changes that create an environment not suitable for coral.
Same will happen with the several types of live rock that we can acquire.
It’s often advised to start with easy corals, that translates to corals that can sustain nutrients changes without bleaching.
 

IntrinsicReef

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I’m from the thought that stability is the main reason.
If a system is started with dry rock it will go through many changes that create an environment not suitable for coral.
Same will happen with the several types of live rock that we can acquire.
It’s often advised to start with easy corals, that translates to corals that can sustain nutrients changes without bleaching.
Good examples of sources of instability in newer tanks. These population booms and crashes might cause instability and maybe compete with coral for essential food and elements.
 

KrisReef

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Wow, some good inputs here, i think these base steps are good for new people starting marine tank. We here often people say go slow! Good reason behind it. Experienced reefers already know what to expect, when starting new tank, they can take shortcuts. Here is a question. Would you recommend new reefer to buy crapload of corals and fish with in first few weeks of starting the tank? No! Why?
If a new reefer comes into my shop I am going to ask them what they have and want to do in the hobby. Once I know their credit limits I will try and sell them everything they can afford to buy with the promise that they will be successful and learn as they go.

The average person is out of the hobby in a year ( I hear this so often that it must be true) and I have a business to support so I want to get as much business out of them before I buy their used equipment at pennies on the dollar to resell to the next person who wants to try their luck with the hobby.

The only other thing I know is that having the proper gear can help them feel good about themselves and I want to support that.
image.jpg

I wish I could answer Randy’s questions about the “rules” and the formula for success but I try to avoid the difficult questions and learn what I can glean from others.

Never do a water change without measuring your parameters in old and new water. Especially if your magnesium levels are low. :cool:
 

Luminous74

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In Europe, there is a lot of information about cycling aquariums, often referred to as "The Legend of Long Cycling." However, I have consciously chosen a different approach that has worked excellently for me. Both my current tank, which has been running for 2.5 years, and my previous tank were started using this alternative concept.


My Approach:


  • Base Materials: Artificial rock and dead sand.
  • Start: After filling the tank with water, I added corals in the first week and fish in the second week.
  • Result: No dirty algae phase and no losses of corals or animals.

Of course, there are corals and animals that are better suited to this concept, while others require a stable ecosystem. Particularly sensitive coral species that are accustomed to constant environments in the ocean may face challenges with this method.


Key Challenges:


  1. Nutrient Management: The main issue is the potential for nutrient limitation. This approach requires daily testing, monitoring, and targeted adjustments.
  2. Sticking to a Concept: Many problems arise from mixing different approaches. With this concept, it’s essential to populate the tank with corals as quickly as possible and introduce sufficient biomass to establish the desired biology.

Personal Assessment:
I want to emphasize that I’m not claiming that a cycling phase doesn’t work. It’s simply a different concept. I also have no scientific evidence to support my approach—just my own humble experience.
 

A_Blind_Reefer

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I feel so strange lately. Maybe it’s something I’m drinking/eating. I see ChatGPT everywhere….like it’s chasing me, it’s hiding behind the bushes, sometimes I feel like I hear it talking to me in my sleep. Maybe I should see someone about this.
 

sixty_reefer

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In Europe, there is a lot of information about cycling aquariums, often referred to as "The Legend of Long Cycling." However, I have consciously chosen a different approach that has worked excellently for me. Both my current tank, which has been running for 2.5 years, and my previous tank were started using this alternative concept.


My Approach:


  • Base Materials: Artificial rock and dead sand.
  • Start: After filling the tank with water, I added corals in the first week and fish in the second week.
  • Result: No dirty algae phase and no losses of corals or animals.

Of course, there are corals and animals that are better suited to this concept, while others require a stable ecosystem. Particularly sensitive coral species that are accustomed to constant environments in the ocean may face challenges with this method.


Key Challenges:


  1. Nutrient Management: The main issue is the potential for nutrient limitation. This approach requires daily testing, monitoring, and targeted adjustments.
  2. Sticking to a Concept: Many problems arise from mixing different approaches. With this concept, it’s essential to populate the tank with corals as quickly as possible and introduce sufficient biomass to establish the desired biology.

Personal Assessment:
I want to emphasize that I’m not claiming that a cycling phase doesn’t work. It’s simply a different concept. I also have no scientific evidence to support my approach—just my own humble experience.
Would a week between adding coral and fish make any real difference?
I’ve heard of this concept but there is a vast period between adding fish.
 

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