Zoas melting - questions and experiences!! - what do you know?

[Dimorb]

Same thing happens to me, it seems to hit one variety at a time. My sps etc are doing fine. I use RO/DI water etc

Here is an example of a few months apart. In the top pic, my WWC purple monsters melted first (bare portion of rock bottom left).

bottom pic all the blue zoas on the tank bottom melted and now the red/orange variety on the rock are starting to melt.

Sorry to see and I feel your pain.

This summer I've decided that Im not going to bother.. if they die they die... I will keep more sps and lps in the new systems and they are going to be coral bays so try not to freak out to much when I loose some colonies this way..

Until someone can give me some advice on what to do.. I've tried iodine and hydrogen peroxid.. but that kills them even faster.

 

[Dimorb]

I’ve been collecting zoas for a long time, 11-12 years. Been in the hobby since the mid 90’s. I’ve got about 200 strains (+/-20) (after a recent move) now in a zoa dedicated trough. Previously I’d keep my collection in a 125 gal piggy-backed on a 220 display loaded with fish, shroom, lps, some sps. For the last 5 years I’ve been between 150-200 strains. Here’s my observations from experience.

With zoas there’s a certain threshold a collection reaches before you start to have consistent issues. At any given time I expect to have 10 strains on the mend, 10 more looking ‘off’ and another 10 doing the slow fade. The Husbandry you have in place is good- dipping for pests (you didn’t specify) and the peroxide (I’m assuming for nuisance algae). Bacterial and (fungal?) stuff can still slip in. For that reason collectors will regularly treat with Chemiclean which- while it says on the label it doesn’t contain erythromycin- supposedly it does. This is a ‘global hammer’ to treat the whole system. The problem is that treatment requires turning off your skimmer for a few days which, depending on your configuration and bio-load, could be problematic for your system. A more focused method is to pull colonies that look off and treat them with a furan-2 dip (followed by a mild lugols bath) every day for 4 days and then take a 1-2 break before doing another cycle. I don’t mess around any more, If a zoa looks at me cross-eyed it’s getting dipped. Early intervention in key. Finally your small hammer is a mild lugols dip- sometimes that’s all a zoa (or coral generally) needs to get it over the bump. Now, it’s tough to see colonies that had been doing well burn out and die, but this happens when you play the long game. Water quality (in the system- think old tank syndrome), water quality of your RO output (checking with a TDS meter), age on your bulbs (if using T5/MH), age of the filters in your RO unit, changes in bio load (new fish, growing sps/lps colonies pulling more alk/calc), hot spots in your salt or dosing products are some of the larger variables you can (or can’t) account for. Of the strains you mentioned only speckled kraks stand out as particularly temperamental. But, some times stuff just wants to die despite our best efforts. You didn’t mention nutrition but obviously feeding is another variable to consider.

My question to you, aside from the close/brown mucus melt what other types (if any) are you seeing? Any displaying severe color shifts? Or open shrinking melting? Any exposing their guts taken on a ‘blown out’ appearance when they melt?

Hello again.

Do you have any more insight in what may cause this behavior?

I've made some changes.

I do have a 220x85x35 system dedicated to zoas. Using RODI water TDS/0. All water parameters perfect. Ligthing and flow have been the same last couple of years.

Re-arranged and moved some colonies/frags around and it looks like it may start again. Polyps shrinking - taking forever to open up etc..

 

[littlebigreef]

Hello again.

Do you have any more insight in what may cause this behavior?

I've made some changes.

I do have a 220x85x35 system dedicated to zoas. Using RODI water TDS/0. All water parameters perfect. Ligthing and flow have been the same last couple of years.

Re-arranged and moved some colonies/frags around and it looks like it may start again. Polyps shrinking - taking forever to open up etc..

I've been QTing more and more the last 8-9 months and I've convinced that a good chunk of zoa loss comes from bacterial/protozan issues that come along with new introductions. Occasionally it just seems like stuff comes out of no where. I don't even mess around waiting anymore, I just do a series of dips over 4-5 days when something starts looking off.

 

[Dimorb]

I've been QTing more and more the last 8-9 months and I've convinced that a good chunk of zoa loss comes from bacterial/protozan issues that come along with new introductions. Occasionally it just seems like stuff comes out of no where. I don't even mess around waiting anymore, I just do a series of dips over 4-5 days when something starts looking off.

What do you use when you dip and where to buy?

 

[littlebigreef]

I've commented here and there over the years on r2r about dipping and methodology. Chemi-clean, metroplex and you can get the component parts to make furan-2 are the best ways to go. Secondarily I do lugols as a back stop. Finally, I've experimented more with h2o2 in certain cases.

 

[justinkdenny]

I read through your posts. I have also had zoas melt for no reason and they will make that rounded top. They will also sometimes look like they have a string tied tightly around the stalk. Did you post your nitrate and phosphate parameters. Sometimes, zoas seem to like dirtier water. hope this helps

 

[Tavero]

After i had this issue for over two years, I am pretty sure that in most cases the culprit is a baxterial infection. The only treatment that was showing sucess in lessen the symptoms were over an hour long dips in concentrated chemiclean. Neither h2o2 nor iodine resulted any improvement. It would be interesting to hear if reefers with UV, GAC or Ozone have the same problems or if these are reduced. I am particulary interested in ozone because this is the only way to remove dissolved organics and bacteria at the same time.

 

[Edgecrusher28]

After i had this issue for over two years, I am pretty sure that in most cases the culprit is a baxterial infection. The only treatment that was showing sucess in lessen the symptoms were over an hour long dips in concentrated chemiclean. Neither h2o2 nor iodine resulted any improvement. It would be interesting to hear if reefers with UV, GAC or Ozone have the same problems or if these are reduced. I am particulary interested in ozone because this is the only way to remove dissolved organics and bacteria at the same time.

I run 20 Oz's of GAC replaced every 8 weeks along with a full-time Pentair 25W UV on a 100 gallon system and have been fighting the ongoing mystery zoa issues as well. I am currently experimenting with some vitamin C dosing along with QT treatments with Malachite Green and Methylene blue.

 

[naterealbig]

reserve osmosis water by itself, without the DI stage will still have many undesirable elements in the water.

many municipal water companies change their source water at certain times of the year, and can introduce different levels of contaminants.

have you had your RO water tested using one of the popular ICP testing companies?


J.

Adding to this thought, and inline with your frequency of zoa loss - some municipalities increase chlorine levels or add chloromines (which or carbon blocks are less efficient at removing) seasonally or yearly.

I have experienced trouble with this before myself, and so occasionally test for total chlorine (Hanna, ultra low range) at my RODI (with 4 x carbon blocks) effluent.

 

[Tavero]

I run 20 Oz's of GAC replaced every 8 weeks along with a full-time Pentair 25W UV on a 100 gallon system and have been fighting the ongoing mystery zoa issues as well. I am currently experimenting with some vitamin C dosing along with QT treatments with Malachite Green and Methylene blue.

That's ... discouraging. This means dissolved organics are also out of the equasion? Maybe the bacterial infection starts directly from the substrate instead of the water? I have definitely lost more polyps in larger clonies (10) than small reef plugs. Maybe some anoxic bactia is growing under the colony.

 

[MischiefReef]

Glad to see so many sets of expert eyes on this problem, I experience similar issues myself from time to time. Wondering if anyone else has noticed a trend of increased nuisance algae at the same time their zoas are ticked off? The tank that I observed this happening in gets extra sunlight through the day in this season and I’ll get nuisance algae in the display unless I adjust my ATS, and it always seems like my zoas act up around this time. Of course, I could be correlating two completely independent things.

 

[Nano_Man]

Adding to this thought, and inline with your frequency of zoa loss - some municipalities increase chlorine levels or add chloromines (which or carbon blocks are less efficient at removing) seasonally or yearly.

I have experienced trouble with this before myself, and so occasionally test for total chlorine (Hanna, ultra low range) at my RODI (with 4 x carbon blocks) effluent.

This might have nothing to do with it but the post court my eye . I’ve just had some Zoa melt away found out it was very high Alk and phosphate from my tap water . This might have nothing to do with your problem but thought I would tell you my experience. I sorted with new rodi . Also I am no expert by a long way just my experience with zoa

 

[Dimorb]

After i had this issue for over two years, I am pretty sure that in most cases the culprit is a baxterial infection. The only treatment that was showing sucess in lessen the symptoms were over an hour long dips in concentrated chemiclean. Neither h2o2 nor iodine resulted any improvement. It would be interesting to hear if reefers with UV, GAC or Ozone have the same problems or if these are reduced. I am particulary interested in ozone because this is the only way to remove dissolved organics and bacteria at the same time.

Thank you for your respons.

I'm also interested in ozone use.. I've been using all the other equipment including auto dosage of H2O2, multiple UV-C filters etc etc..

Anyone with ozone having this issue?

Also... I'm back to back dosing and can tell an improvement on many colonies but not all.. when your write "concentrated chemiclean" how much powder in how much water?

 

[Dimorb]

Adding to this thought, and inline with your frequency of zoa loss - some municipalities increase chlorine levels or add chloromines (which or carbon blocks are less efficient at removing) seasonally or yearly.

I have experienced trouble with this before myself, and so occasionally test for total chlorine (Hanna, ultra low range) at my RODI (with 4 x carbon blocks) effluent.

Wouldnt this also affect other type of corals?

 

[Dimorb]

Glad to see so many sets of expert eyes on this problem, I experience similar issues myself from time to time. Wondering if anyone else has noticed a trend of increased nuisance algae at the same time their zoas are ticked off? The tank that I observed this happening in gets extra sunlight through the day in this season and I’ll get nuisance algae in the display unless I adjust my ATS, and it always seems like my zoas act up around this time. Of course, I could be correlating two completely independent things.

I believed this as well when this started a couple of years ago but this time the aquariums are placed in a cultivation room without windows and no visible increase of algae.

Do you experience problems at the same time every year?

 

[Edgecrusher28]

If this ongoing issue truly does stem from a protozoan/superficial bacterial issues I am going to get to the bottom of it (at least I'm telling myself that). I have been doing some research over the last few days and have ordered several bacterial/fungal treatments for testing. I am setting up a few 5 gallon buckets (poor mans QT tank) and will run various treatments for different periods and concentrations to see if I can rehabilitate these pathetic looking Zoa frags.

Other completed (basic) treatments that DID NOT WORK:
Hydrogen Peroxide scrubs.
Hydrogen Peroxide 50/50 dips.
Hydrogen Peroxide 100% concentration dips (Actually ended up burning the mat on some frags).
Coral RX dip.
Coral RX highly concentrated dip.
Dipx dip.
Dipx highly concentrated dip.
Iodine dip.
iodine highly concentrated dip.
ChemiClean full tank treatments X2

Future tests:
Sechem Metroplex, Kanaplex, and NeoPlex baths.
API General Cure and Erythromycin baths.
Kordons Malachite Green, Methylene Blue, Rid ICH plus baths.

In progress test:
-48 Hour Methylene Blue treatment (24 hour dip is completed)
-Vitamin C and Multivitamin dosing.

Completed test:
-24 hour Methylene blue treatment. (Minor changes for the good, but perhaps too early to tell.)

Before treatment. A once beautiful and FULL colony of Nirvana, now sad and pathetic.

After 24 hour MB treatment and one full day of recovery in tank.

What they used to look like

 

[Tavero]

Also... I'm back to back dosing and can tell an improvement on many colonies but not all.. when your write "concentrated chemiclean" how much powder in how much water?

I am using up to 1 measuring spoon (60mg) per 100 ml for dipping frags. If i dip a whole life rock i am using 1 spoon per 500 ml saltwater. It definitely helps but some colonies are just too far gone already to survive.

For example this Lord of the Rings colony suddenly started melting and got to this point in just a few days.
This isnt the first colony that has health issues on this particular rock. I have also lost my sunny D that were inhabitants of it. I have also lost zoas in reef plugs but usually only during the first 1-2 months after i get them.

 

[Tavero]

Adding to this thought, and inline with your frequency of zoa loss - some municipalities increase chlorine levels or add chloromines (which or carbon blocks are less efficient at removing) seasonally or yearly.

I have experienced trouble with this before myself, and so occasionally test for total chlorine (Hanna, ultra low range) at my RODI (with 4 x carbon blocks) effluent.

I am pretty sure that it isn't the RO water that's creating these issues in the majority of cases. Here in germany, chlorine treatment is getting obsolete. The water treatment facilities in our region completely switched to ozone + GAC and don't even have the facilities anymore to add chlorinine to tap water.
I still have have the same problems.

 

[MischiefReef]

I believed this as well when this started a couple of years ago but this time the aquariums are placed in a cultivation room without windows and no visible increase of algae.

Do you experience problems at the same time every year?

Yes it does seem like roughly the same time every year.

If this ongoing issue truly does stem from a protozoan/superficial bacterial issues I am going to get to the bottom of it (at least I'm telling myself that). I have been doing some research over the last few days and have ordered several bacterial/fungal treatments for testing. I am setting up a few 5 gallon buckets (poor mans QT tank) and will run various treatments for different periods and concentrations to see if I can rehabilitate these pathetic looking Zoa frags.

Other completed (basic) treatments that DID NOT WORK:
Hydrogen Peroxide scrubs.
Hydrogen Peroxide 50/50 dips.
Hydrogen Peroxide 100% concentration dips (Actually ended up burning the mat on some frags).
Coral RX dip.
Coral RX highly concentrated dip.
Dipx dip.
Dipx highly concentrated dip.
Iodine dip.
iodine highly concentrated dip.
ChemiClean full tank treatments X2

Future tests:
Sechem Metroplex, Kanaplex, and NeoPlex baths.
API General Cure and Erythromycin baths.
Kordons Malachite Green, Methylene Blue, Rid ICH plus baths.

In progress test:
-48 Hour Methylene Blue treatment (24 hour dip is completed)
-Vitamin C and Multivitamin dosing.

Completed test:
-24 hour Methylene blue treatment. (Minor changes for the good, but perhaps too early to tell.)

Before treatment. A once beautiful and FULL colony of Nirvana, now sad and pathetic.

After 24 hour MB treatment and one full day of recovery in tank.

What they used to look like

Interesting and thanks for sharing. Following on this treatment. Please keep us posted on the treatment progress!

 

[Edgecrusher28]

Yes it does seem like roughly the same time every year.

Interesting and thanks for sharing. Following on this treatment. Please keep us posted on the treatment progress!

I am going to make my own post, that should be easier to follow along with. I will make all my updates there.