A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

[brandon429]

This is a testless cycling thread, we don't want ammonia testing here for any job if possible, because we are teaching reefers/readers that moving live rocks system to system does not restart the cycle: many in our community don't understand that rule and feel that any tank being setup simply must be cycled, regardless of the history of the substrates being used

that's not the case. Knowing when a cycle is simply completed allows an aquarist to move to the next level of reefing or tank care, it saves them costly testing regimens and dosers (bottle bac) redundancy that isn't needed in a certain type of reef tank cycle, which are the kinds I will post here as simple work threads where we identified people who didn't know the rule about moving live rocks tank to tank (this includes from a pet store to your home, that's a skip cycle/testless move that does not undo your cycle)



*when reading our examples, look for these repeating clues in the posts:

-peers referring the use of bottle bac when none is needed
-doubts about cycle completion for live rocks that clearly have corals attached, or algae, or various inclusions that by rule only show up after a cycle for basic ammonia control was already in place.
-use of ammonia testing with non-seneye kits causing much doubt and hesitation in the example threads.
-inability to discern cycle status without testing
-look for times we used simple pictures or stated history of the rocks in question to completely change the direction of a given thread included here (from a doubt status to a for-sure ready status, using no testing)




running examples that will make up the work we analyze here:

cycling with live rock and live sand

Hi everyone, Its been a while since i started a tank w/ live rock and live sand. I set up a waterbox cube 20, and added live rock and live sand to it. This stuff has been in the LFS tank for years. Do I still need to cycle this tank by adding bacteria and ammonia as one would do with dry rock...

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Day 8 of 32 gallon cycle. New creatures!

Evening. Day 8 of cycling my 32 gal Fluval Flex. very excited about some emerging life. No fish/cleanup crew yet but STUFF IS HAPPENING Looks like 1) mushroom 2) bristleworm 3) no idea 4) no idea 5) (Setup) Any guesses on the last two? Thx

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this thread is solely to log predictions and outcomes in soon to be several skip cycle reefs.

Macna conventions/all reef tank conventions use this method to align hundreds of reefs on time, for decades. Sellers at reef conventions know how to skip cycle without testing, the buyers mostly do not you can see in our working examples.









What skip cycle cured rock looks like at my pet store-

this is how my lfs sells skip cycle live rock, and you can tell by its uneven pigmentation and associated fanworms and snails and pods crawling over it and real ridged coralline that it’s cured live rock:

everyone’s rocks in this thread look just like these



here below is an example of common (and incorrect) cycle training common in internet forums

When to add fritz zyme 9

I just picked up a 14 gallon tank and got 15lbs of cured live rock. I got a bottle of fritz zyme 9 to get the tank going but I can’t find any information on when to add it. Do I let the live rock start the cycle then add the fritz? Or can I add the fritz immediately? thanks

www.nano-reef.com

old cycling science is designed to sell you bottle bac at every whim, twist and turn in reefing. Our thread is a study in the polar opposite. 100% of every example here is a no bottle bac skip cycle, no wait transfer.

The pattern we will see in the linked examples shows by and large the reefing public does not know about skip cycling, we aim to show them all about it.





Our friend Romadov was able to skip his cycle by bringing in cured liferocks that had the telltale attachments

My snail survived from 2 weeks cycle new tank. Can i add livestock?

Hey all, i just started reef tank 2 weeks ago and still cycling untill now, im using live sand from caribsea and liferock from LFS, and suddenly 1 snail appears in my tank in 1st day cycling, im pretry sure it came from the live rock, im worried it wouldnt survived but i have no choice to put it...

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here’s a skip cycle

Did i mess up new tanks cycle?

So, my tanks been running for 3 weeks now. First week I had it set up with 40lbs of dry sand and 26lbs of live rock bought from local shop they have marinating in tubs. Now after maybe 10 days I thought I had read if you use live rock you can skip cycle and so for the last about 11 days I've...

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A surprise popup skip cycle post where at week six cycle umps were in doubt of readiness:

Modified API Test Results

Hello, After seeing a post about Dan_P’s modified API ammonia test. I decided to give it a try since I’ve been getting the .25 Ammonia reading on API for a month now (my tank is six weeks old and has 0 nitrites and 10-20 Nitrates). I’ve tried the Seachem Ammonia test to compare and the results...

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And another

The umpires were good here calling this one done but the initial assessments hadn’t caught the skip cycle clues until we did

Nitrite stuck on 1.0, help?

Hello, I have been cycling a 60 liters tank for about 5 weeks now, but my nitrite is stuck on 1.0 for about 1,5 weeks now. My ammonia is consistently 0 for about 2-3 weeks allready & my nitrite used to be higher (2.0 to 3.0) I used pre cycled wet rock from a running tank at the LFS. I allready...

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***Any reader can help us here tremendously by scouring the web and looking for examples where a skip cycle attempt, using cured live rock from a tank, did not work and the animals died***

the reason we want to see those examples is to show failures of this method, if there are any. I have never seen one time it did not work in 23 years of online reefing, same name avatar across all reef sites.

I have never seen a failed skip cycle attempt, ever. Ive never even seen a failed bottle bac cycle, and those really can be risky.

Isn't it amazing that cycle training books/manuals/articles didn't tell us that cycles really don't fail? In fact it's the opposite: we've all been warned repeatedly that incorrect cycling has consequences, but I'm not seeing any. Post what you can find. I've asked the top chemists on this site to help me find an example, radio silence is what I've got so far. Skip to post #569 for the fun part.
B

 

[brandon429]

Second reference link

Instant Tank Cycle

Set up my tank Friday. Placed a sizeable chunk of frozen brine shrimp into the filter sock to stop it messing up the tank. Saturday PM Ammonia is 0 Saturday PM added another chunk of frozen brine shrimp different area of sump. Added seeded live rock from other tanks also. Sunday PM Ammonia...

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I think there are ten or fifteen sublinked skip cycle reefs ranging two years in that work thread of pure visual cycling, cured rocks, no tests with outcomes logged.

the trend: there is no allowance in anything written for reefing regarding what we did there for pages. Macna and all conventions use this method, it’s not mine, I just recognized 0% of the hobby caught onto the deal as I was strolling through Aquashella looking at reefs who never stood a chance of stalling and rows of buyers picking up bottle bac half destined for rock that doesn’t need any

Leaving out core cycle info from the books was convenient for initiating cash flow, in the least.




this method costs the sellers 0$ to implement a skip cycle to the convention, and back home, and they never stall or fail or miss a start date...but forums always stumble every single possible post.

isn’t that a fascinating market driver?!?

 

[DeniseAndy]

Unfortunately I have never done a build thread of mine, but I do these all the time with nano and pico systems. Just move over the live rock and animals and done. No cycle, no cure, no deaths.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed it’s that simple. Not one single bad outcome can be attributed to the act

I wish you had some api data though during one, so we can see the panic meter show greenish yellow

live rock transfers commonly show positive for ammonia or nitrite traces

due to detritus casting, and over reporting of expected nitrification (just like we can find api showing .25 on years old reefs easily)


since people just moved rocks, they assume the reading must be right this time.

the rarity is finding any tank showing safe readings for both at the same time.

We have never considered a test- free cycling method, where every reef is ready on the requested start date. MACNA has surely considered that, and reefstock, and aquashella etc

all conventions use skip cycling

Third link


see how he was being advised incorrectly, then we discerned it was a skip cycle, and now things w be ok? that's why cycling specific to the type of rocks matters so much. we save time, money, headaches and worry when using updated cycling science.

Cycling question

Yeah that's weird then. I mean a lot of reports recently that Dr. Tim's One and Only does not seem to really be working, but well if you have live rock defo should have the nitrifiers you'd need. Do you have a pic of your tank Don’t mind aquascape redoing it sometime

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[brandon429]

Here’s number three. We scared OP off from posting pics lol but read the clues in the thread, he tried to tell us a few times the rock was live and we kept pressing for the doubt mode
this was a skip cycle system. He could indeed make a macna start date on time with this rock. We do not add shrimp decay to live rocks, they show up ready.

Live Rock and Sand Add Raw Shrimp??? I also added Bio Spira

Cycling A new Tank I have Live Rock and Sand I also added Bio Spira Do I need to add Raw shrimp also???

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Here's one where old cycling science made this reefer think that a live rock transfer cycle was not 100% ready:

Did my new tank just turbo cycle?

Hello, I just set up a new lagoon style frag tank. It is two 20G tanks plumbed into a 36G sump. I am attempting a clear bottom build and only have 10lbs of miracle mud for substrate in the sump. I took about 50lbs rock from a tank that's been running for 20 years, cleaned it up and cooked it for...

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old cycling science is bad, it takes money from folks by incorrect training and by selling peace of mind that isn't needed.

 

[brandon429]

#4

Crazy high nitrates during cycle? Help!!

Hey I just got my first saltwater tank, 3g Pico reef and plan on having minimal bio-load (so parameters stay as stable as possible). But I’m 9 days into cycling and nitrates are tested at 80ppm!! Nitrates and ammonia stay at zero but I have no clue why my nitrates are so high. I have 4...

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Directly skip cycle, mad benthics prove this, see his pics and known history for the rock.

 

[brandon429]

#5

Consistent ammonia levels not exceeding.25

Hi all, have a question., maybe silly. I have a biocube 32 with about 15 pounds of rock, 20 pounds of sand, two soft corals, and some snails and crabs. All are doing well. I have had a constant presence of ammonia but it never exceeds .25. I’d say it is probably about .15, between 0 and .25...

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Look at his pics.

 

[brandon429]

Ammonia Keeps Spiking

So from everything I have read and was told once I have reached 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite my tank was cycled took about a month or so. I cycled with live rock and fish. Tank has been up 6 weeks. Now in my tank I have 4 fish. Midas Blenny, longnose hawk and 2 clowns with 40lbs of live rock. I do...

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#6

an old one

look at his first set of proofing pics. There’s a living fish and an open fanworm, fanworms can’t open up if there’s dangerous free ammonia and fish won’t swim and eat normally, you wake up next day and they’re dead, this was yet another ammonia misread we easily identified.

 

[brandon429]

Another

Live Rock and Sand Add Raw Shrimp??? I also added Bio Spira

Cycling A new Tank I have Live Rock and Sand I also added Bio Spira Do I need to add Raw shrimp also???

www.reef2reef.com

took extra days to see the live rock pictures but it’s complete now. Notice how the live rock in all these different reefs from different sources look the same

 

[brandon429]

#8

Diatoms in just 4 days.

you have a skip cycle reef, zero wait. the bottle bac added was not needed, post a pic of your rock. matured reefs (the rock you used) produce diatoms routinely and support them in balance. we only cycle dry rocks added, not live rocks, we paid extra for them to skip cycle. need pics for a...

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Im going to add a label as to whether bottle bac were incorrectly sold to the reefer or not with each analysis going forward. If I wanted redundancy, I'd buy a car with four steering wheels.

or how about next time I order a salad, they give me sixteen spoons-> what harm is the extra right? well if they're charging for them...


bottle bac were incorrectly sold to this customer, old cycling rules at the LFS got them an unfair sale. They should have stopped him. they sold him once on bacteria from live rock, costing more than dry, then again on actual ocean water as their water source, and then again as bottle bac for a skip cycle setup. New cycling science saves us money and makes the man have to work for the sale vs 3x it and get hammered in forums.


#9

Upgraded tank. Now dinos

Anyone experienced this before. 3 weeks ago I upgraded my tank from a 20 gallon reef with 10 gallon sump to a 75 gallon with a 29 gallon sump. I started the 75 gallon with all new sand which was dry sand. A mixture of fine and coarse. I used the old tank water plus new and only seeded the sand...

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[NeonRabbit221B]

Brandon has rewired my brain to correct people on reefing and FW fish groups on facebook about cycling rules and misreads. The simple truth is that if you have live rock for a reef or established filters from a mature FW tank then your concerns about cycling are purely based off of retail using fear to generate sales.

If 33 adult cichlids can be skip cycled into a newly ripped clean 75G tank with only a couple filters pads then I should be able to declare "required" bottled bacteria additions to a new tank with live rock a busted myth. Put down the anxiety inducing ammonia test kit and trust in the established bacteria.

 

[brandon429]

Nano Build - Octo High End SPS Skip Cycle Build....

Amazing tank and growth. Curious if you see more copepods or sponges since using easy booster? Also if you noticed anything else using easybooster? Thanks! I have a refugium that I stock twice a month with amphipods and copepods so always have an abundance even with a scooter Blenny eating...

www.reef2reef.com

Stunning full reef all high end corals, built on skip cycle rock let’s check page one. I think some corals came home with the rock

 

[brandon429]

Pico Reef Cycling Questions

Hello everyone! After many years of owning FW Aquariums and always wanting to jump into reefing, I decided to jump all in a go difficult right away! I have a 4 gallon tank that sits on my desk for that ocean vibe. Its been running for a total of 5 days with live sand and live rock. I'm...

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every reef convention reef is the one from post #12, just a full blown reef of all colors... worth thousands, and we're standing there in awe wondering how they got all this compliance without showing up ninety days early to begin a three-parameter classic cycle.

and then the concern shifts to: yea but those only run five days, a convention, and we need the cycle to last longer


watch and see how many rocks from this thread ever uncycle for the life of this thread. they're alive and tradeable as long as wet, simple as that. permacycled indeed, that's the entire point of this thread is permacycling and the audacity of adding paid bottle bac in addition to live rock a little elitist cycling poke humor is generally good.

when we say live rock is ready, that means ready. adding bottle bac meant someone thought we had gaps left to accept new bacteria; we did not, live rock remains full even after transport. moving wet rocks among wet tanks never was antibacterial but if we thought it was, we buy bottle bac over and over and over and over and over

 

[fade2black]

Nano Build - Octo High End SPS Skip Cycle Build....

Amazing tank and growth. Curious if you see more copepods or sponges since using easy booster? Also if you noticed anything else using easybooster? Thanks! I have a refugium that I stock twice a month with amphipods and copepods so always have an abundance even with a scooter Blenny eating...

www.reef2reef.com

Stunning full reef all high end corals, built on skip cycle rock let’s check page one. I think some corals came home with the rock

Been reading a ton of your posts on this topic and have to say this is eye opening for me because I had always drank the kool-aid thinking a reef tank cycle took weeks to months. Been away for a few years and came back to this and it makes total sense to me now. Using good quality live rock seems key.

 

[brandon429]

I need to insert a caveat or my chemistry friends w be disappointed:

earning nitrite compliance really does take a long time

and we can eliminate the errors of the dreaded dead bottle of bac by waiting out the proper times, and/or testing as oxidation proof before adding fish (to dry systems, these are all remarks about dry system bringups)

thankfully all my chem friends agree that live rock transfers are legit science and skip cycle consistently. how fast dry systems are legit ready for sure/ still being determined.

*the mailed live rocks can have dieoff we expect, overwhelmed cycling bacteria vs lacking any is the cause... adding more bacteria doesn't afford more attachment points/they're still full but overwhelmed by a dead mollusk.

for all the rocks here they smelled normal, that's big key proof of no dieoff, they were cured already of dying attachments long ago.

they came from a known history at the pet store, or someone else's reef and looking at the holding container itself would probably show brittle stars at the bottom, broken off but live fanworms, some pods scurrying, coralline on the rock in patchy places vs painted-on 100% total purple even color coverage which is clearly not real coralline
real coralline is patchy, whorled at times, stacked in little chip layers we can see up close, other small animals are attached, it has telltale signs that its not paint.

our thread here is 100% about identifying skip cycle ready rocks without any titration testing whatsoever. by vision and by smell and by known history of the substrate we can start every reef convention, testing is not needed when dealing in cured live rock tank transfers.


no cycling rules apply to us, and all the techies agree. but only our niche gets this pass

if you're cycling any other way then the forums want you waiting sixty days even if you've bought 3 day bac for $39

 

[brandon429]

#12 doesn’t know theyre fully cycled yet, discovering so makes it like a Christmas present though

New Tank Cycle - possible stall and this can’t be aptasia, can it???

Doing cycle on 94gal tank w/ 30gal sump. - CaribSea Fiji Pink sand - CaribSea Dry live rock and arches - Pumps, plumbing, etc - everything new... - Lights off during cycle Used Fritz Fishless Fuel followed by TurboStart 900 First Test ammonia was high, no Nitrites/Nitrates (as expected). Day...

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[brandon429]

Do read that link above I could be wrong we are still tracing out origins of the rock

can visual cues mislead? it’s better than a Nancy Drew novel.




another

new tank, but no cycle?

So I set up a biocube 32 a week ago exactly, and used 40 lbs live sand (rinsed) + a ton of live rock from a LFS. I added 3 chromis 2 days ago. So far, all my numbers (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) are still zero. I also added full bottle of Dr. Tims one and only 3 days ago. I haven't had an...

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[brandon429]

@iMi


based on a recent post you made I’m curious for your input regarding the rocks we feature here


when does cycling a new reef require bottle bac, and when does it not? Our thread here is a unique set of rocks to say the least.

if there are cycles that do not require bottle bac to be added, how can we know when that is the case

 

[iMi]

@iMi


based on a recent post you made I’m curious for your input regarding the rocks we feature here


when does cycling a new reef require bottle bac, and when does it not? Our thread here is a unique set of rocks to say the least.

if there are cycles that do not require bottle bac to be added, how can we know when that is the case

If the rock is cycled, the tank is cycled. Bottled bacteria is not needed, in my opinion.

Having said that, adding it will not cause harm. One cannot overdose bacteria. Its population will settle into an equilibrium based on available nutrient.

The only way to know is to test the water frequently and assess what's happening. That's just my two cents, but I've never cycled a tank for more than a week, including a heavily planted discus tank I had to move. The media in the canister and the drift wood were enough to maintain the cycle.

 

[brandon429]

In Chris’ ammonia post, he is using this rock above which is full of bacteria and has no attachment points for new. Would he need bottle bac in the context of this thread vs the one he’s titled as an ammonia emergency


there is one certain time we would never, ever add bottle bac to live rocks and it’s this time:

Reef Tank CPR - power outage biology, crash arrest, and recovery

Team Don‘t add bottled bacteria to the display during crash arrest as the cycle bacteria aren’t killed in still water. There are times where bottled bacteria can lower ammonia in fish holding containers especially if travel or transport is occurring, but by rinsing these displays out vs dosing...

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One way our thread is used here for cycle proofing is that it shows at no time can ammonia hover above safe levels for weeks in the presence of activated surface area, it’s why we don’t add bottle bac here or collect posts that do. It’s why we don’t use test kits known to misread as the cycle umpires.

we show that skip cycle live rocks stay locked in, as long as they’re wet, and moving to new tanks does not undo that and it never requires bottle bac. It works always, not sometimes, thats important to know in cycle troubleshoots - there is one kind of rock we immediately eliminate as suspect for free ammonia claims.

I wanted to show here that a soon to be pages long thread with hundreds of skip cycles remarks upon universal patterning for all reef tanks using cured rock transfers. None vary regarding free ammonia. All of them vary when using api or red sea to decide, those are the misreads.

Look at this thread. One single hitchhiker known to be associated with skip cycle live rock was spotted in the pic, turns out this was a skip cycle setup

see how skip cycle live rock is predictable every which way possible

Worms in sand bed?

Noticed these in my tank today, what are they, are they dangerous should I remove them?

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