Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

[thedon986]

So interestingly, I've been dealing with high nitrates and phosphate for months (~50ppm nitrate, 0.1+ phos) and have been carbon dosing to address it. Last night phos was 0.08 and nitrate was 25.1, so I started ramping down the vinegar today. I have a filter roller and no filter sock. I can do lights off (they definitely disappear when the light is off) but I had understood amphidium goes into the sand at night rather than into the water column?

Now I've written this I realise you could be responding to @MarkSC not me...

I think the nutrient swings, even if remaining elevated can bring them about.

Yeah, they will go into the sand. Have you been dosing any sodium silicate, aka waterglass or SpongExcel? I have an area that recently came on strong and my nutrients haven't been anywhere near low, but I have been carbon dosing as well. I have switched the carbon dosing back to night and am dosing a 40% sodium silicate solution and seeing good improvements.

 

[lmfbs]

I think the nutrient swings, even if remaining elevated can bring them about.

Yeah, they will go into the sand. Have you been dosing any sodium silicate, aka waterglass or SpongExcel? I have an area that recently came on strong and my nutrients haven't been anywhere near low, but I have been carbon dosing as well. I have switched the carbon dosing back to night and am dosing a 40% sodium silicate solution and seeing good improvements.

My nitrate rose slowly and has been dropping slowly (up over months, down from 49 - 25 over about 6 weeks). I haven't started anything to deal with dinos yet - is there a good protocol for dosing sodium silicate?

 

[thedon986]

My nitrate rose slowly and has been dropping slowly (up over months, down from 49 - 25 over about 6 weeks). I haven't started anything to deal with dinos yet - is there a good protocol for dosing sodium silicate?

I have been doing about 4mls of 40% sodium silicate every other day. I am probably about to cut it back though as I am seeing great diatom growth and dark thick patches are turning to more generalized and widespread brown.

 

[MarkSC]

This is hard to say. Do you find them exclusively on the sand? If so, likely large cell. Small cell like other surfaces too, to an extent.

Yes in sand. Also swim in crazy roomba pattern. I read that is indicative of large cell, but how does small cell move?

 

[thedon986]

Yes in sand. Also swim in crazy roomba pattern. I read that is indicative of large cell, but how does small cell move?

Small cell is Roomba like but tends to move much faster. If you can find some diatoms or something else to compare to it might give you better reference on their size.

 

[lmfbs]

I have been doing about 4mls of 40% sodium silicate every other day. I am probably about to cut it back though as I am seeing great diatom growth and dark thick patches are turning to more generalized and widespread brown.

So I had a chat with some people in my area on our wee messenger group, and every single person was extremely anti-silicate dosing. Their argument is it will cause diatoms (which...yes, that is the point). I have to say, so many different opinions is really giving me pause but I'm worried all this time dithering around is making the job much harder!

 

[thedon986]

So I had a chat with some people in my area on our wee messenger group, and every single person was extremely anti-silicate dosing. Their argument is it will cause diatoms (which...yes, that is the point). I have to say, so many different opinions is really giving me pause but I'm worried all this time dithering around is making the job much harder!

okay, but what is the bad part about that? that's not really an argument. they are proven to compete with and reduce density of dinos. what would you rather have? dinos or diatoms?

 

[lmfbs]

okay, but what is the bad part about that? that's not really an argument. they are proven to compete with and reduce density of dinos. what would you rather have? dinos or diatoms?

Yeah I mean, that's kind of my point. Diatoms are easier to deal with than dinos, I think. I just wonder if there's something I'm missing.

 

[adam567890]

Hello all,

I'm wondering if anyone can help me ID these dinos by swim pattern. I think they are either large or small cell Amphidinium but I cannot seem to get the videos linked in the guide on the first page of this thread to work. Hoping it's small cell because I just invested in a sterilizer. Second video is under higher magnification.

 

[Ryans Reef]

Hoping to get an ID on what I think might be dinos? They could just be normal scavengers but the tank has been looking a bit rough recently so curious if it's indeed dinos.







The rock/and sand have a reddish/brown film, with a bit of green cyano as well.

 

[thedon986]

Yep, can’t quite tell which type but those are dino cells.

 

[Ryans Reef]

Yep, can’t quite tell which type but those are dino cells.

May not be much clearer, but maybe these images help

 

[thedon986]

Whew that is a dense slide! Any pics of the sand under white light?

Large cell or Prorocentrum probably. Treatment is basically the same. It is good there is green cyano mixed in though. Get a diatom bloom going by dosing silica. Make sure N and P are elevated and give it a couple weeks to see how things react.

 

[Grady’s_Reef]

Not quite sure what species these are. Any ideas?

 

[taricha]

Not quite sure what species these are. Any ideas?

prorocentrum for sure.

 

[Grady’s_Reef]

prorocentrum for sure.

It’s only on the sand. I’m just going to wait and see what happens.

 

[taricha]

It’s only on the sand. I’m just going to wait and see what happens.

Always fine to just suck out any growth that's brown enough to bother you.

 

[Grady’s_Reef]

Always fine to just suck out any growth that's brown enough to bother you.

What causes prorocentrum to grow and multiply? is it silicates or do they just out compete the other micro organisms on the substrate because it is still establishing . Tank isn't even 60 days old yet. Started with Fiji live rock and marco dry rock. Rock looks amazing and is algae free. Sand is the only issue.

 

[taricha]

What causes prorocentrum to grow and multiply? is it silicates or do they just out compete the other micro organisms on the substrate because it is still establishing . Tank isn't even 60 days old yet.

mostly, Dinos use nutrients similar to any other algae (not silicate). The biggest difference that causes a lot of problems is toxicity. That means their susceptibility to grazing is very low, and they can resist being displaced whereas other nuisances (diatoms) more often come and go.
new surfaces will get colonized by the uglies, not a surprise, dinos are a part of that.

 

[Mastiffking]

Sorry. Posted in the wrong thread.