New Trident?

[cubsfan16]

Im in for one. Came home after traveling for 8 days to dinos and bottomed out phosphate and a big drop in nitrates. This is the second time this has happened despite dosing N/P and giving my son a feeding regiment (he missed 2 days). More than happy to pay the $650-700 to just adjust my DOS to add nitrate/phosphate or yell at my son to feed the fish. I can clear the dinos in 3 days but it takes everything a month or so to fully recover....plus lost a couple frags...fortunately nothing high end. The Hanna's are great, but dont do me much good when I'm out of town.

 

[BrokenReefer]

Let’s run a hypothetical: provided the prediction about Neptune combining the two testers into one All-In-One unit proves out true in the future. Also assuming the theatrical part of the hobby, who professed to the world they will renounce their Neptune-ship.

What would the cost be for Neptune to offer a “trade-in” value for units that were purchased within 1-year of the launch date? Or even 2-years? Proof of purchase required, sales from private parties don’t apply. Would that wet the appetite some?

 

[JeffB418]

what neptune did with the Trident NP makes complete sense from a manufacturing standpoint. They cut their teeth on the OG design and have fine tuned their manufacturing process around the existing unit. By reusing molds they cut down significantly on NRE costs. Same goes with labor, having both the old and new units be physically identical, its much easier to have assemblers pivot between models. Also it leads into servicing and support, with both units very similar, its more streamlined to do both. Then there's packaging and more, its all been done so its just reuse. From a business standpoint, it just makes sense and Aperture/Neptune is a business... they want the biggest ROI that they can get.

It would be interesting to see if they have addressed some of the biggest issues with the trident OG. Things like overflowing vial protection on the optical eye board, or adding barbs to the combiner hub in the middle to prevent tubes from popping off. Because the reagents being used here are much more acidic and damaging. Hence why they include a tray for under the units now, since that stuff could do serious damage to a tank or other materials. It also is surprising that they didnt change their direction from a "module only" based unit to a stand alone or hybrid based design. IE could run it by itself and not need a brain, or have it connected to a system, like the neptune return pump, ATK, or Sky lights. Seems like Apex is still stuck on this older concept that alot of companies are moving away from. And its not like they cant do that, because they have. The Sky lights use a similar processor chip that the Hydros devices uses, which has more than enough horsepower to do the processing a Trident needs. Just very interesting that they fell short on that one.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

@JeffB418, it seems the complaint about standalone is just that. Someone trying hard to perceive a flaw and blowing it out of proportion.

This makes me question the validity of a standalone unit, what would be benefit? And who would be the target audience?

How many people that swear off controllers are interesting in an overpriced automated testing unit? I'd suspect a very small number. Where is the benefit to knowing numbers from your overpriced automated tester if you can't automate other tasks to handle them?

I honestly think this is a rub, those willing to jump in and utilize automated testers are the very same that want control. Having a standalone unit would cater to only a small offset of the community and to your point, they are a company and they need to target the masses.

 

[JeffB418]

@JeffB418, it seems the complaint about standalone is just that. Someone trying hard to perceive a flaw and blowing it out of proportion.

This makes me question the validity of a standalone unit, what would be benefit? And who would be the target audience?

How many people that swear off controllers are interesting in an overpriced automated testing unit? I'd suspect a very small number. Where is the benefit to knowing numbers from your overpriced automated tester if you can't automate other tasks to handle them?

I honestly think this is a rub, those willing to jump in and utilize automated testers are the very same that want control. Having a standalone unit would cater to only a small offset of the community and to your point, they are a company and they need to target the masses.

i wasn't trying to "blow it out of proportion", was just making note of something. Just seems odd that they aren't evolving new products in the same direction that they were starting to on older products in terms of stand alone options. Would've been nice to see the new DOS QD even take on the stand alone option as well. As for a stand alone Trident NP, I see using a nitrate/phos tester having much less automation options as compared to the OG Trident. I personally make manual adjustment based off these test values, and would unlikely automate anything off these readings.

 

[BrokenReefer]

What I would like to see is an option to upgrade the internals on some of those items to a current driver/board combo. The case hasn't changed so I would suspect it would be an easy upgrade and one that could net some good GP %. RE: DOS QD, not Trident NP.

I, personally, do not see the value in an automatic NP tester; however, for someone who is dealing with chronically low/high NP, then I could see the value in that use case. That said, the price point on the Trident NP is disappointing when compared to Hanna checkers.

 

[areefer01]

What I would like to see is an option to upgrade the internals on some of those items to a current driver/board combo. The case hasn't changed so I would suspect it would be an easy upgrade and one that could net some good GP %. RE: DOS QD, not Trident NP.

My guess is that it won't be too difficult to 3d print a case to manage both. Not directed at you but there is a lot of angst about having two Tridents side by side and their lack of beauty. It really isn't that big of a deal in my opinion as they are out of sight.

I, personally, do not see the value in an automatic NP tester; however, for someone who is dealing with chronically low/high NP, then I could see the value in that use case. That said, the price point on the Trident NP is disappointing when compared to Hanna checkers.

It is a tool. Nothing more. Those running low nutrient tanks this would be a great tool to use to automate daily tests based on a schedule. Doesn't matter if it is the Trident NP, Kamore, Reef Bot, or Maven. They are tools to save the hobbyist time. Same is true if the hobbyist is running a high nutrient system. In both cases you want to manage the system and these tools help with that.

Think about it for a minute. Consistency wins. Is the hobbyist filling the sample with the correct amount of water? Did they add the right amount of drops? Was the drop a drop of the same size or any extra? Did I get all of the reagent pack into the cuvette? Did I shake for two minutes or three? Did I shake vigorously or just roll it? Did I see the color change? Basically was I consistent time and time again to get the best numbers? And the kicker is if I give the same test to 3 different people, Bob, Sally, and Biff, are the numbers the same?

A tool removes the human factor (yes, I'm assuming it is doing things consistently). Now I can act based on the trend(s).

Just a tool. And the tool has valid use cases. They may not be the same for everyone or needed. Since we are talking about the Trident and NP - it made perfect sense for them to release it as a standalone because not everyone wants or cares about testing N P.

So no, you are not wrong in your view but maybe someone has a need.

 

[BrokenReefer]

My first comment was regarding the DOS QuietDrive; by all accounts it is the same product with a new board and drivers. If Neptune were to offer that as a DIY upgrade kit, I'm sure they could capture additional marketspace as well.

I fully agree - just like a 10 oz. Stiletto Hammer (MSRP $289) does the same task as a Stanley 10 oz. hammer ($6.97) - every tool has a purpose. That was my point about my use case not being practical but, like the hammer analogy, there's a need for some.

For reference sake, I do like automated testing and controls for the simple fact that I have a very busy life with two young kids. I don't have hours upon hours to do manual tasks, not that there's anything wrong with that; my personal use case doesn't have that kind of time in my schedule. I have no problems with Neptune releasing products that better the reefing experience for their customers, same with Coral Vue. There will always be a customer base for products released to market, no big brand goes through their development process without understanding potential market share.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

That said, the price point on the Trident NP is disappointing when compared to Hanna checkers.

Mic drop moment right there.

My first comment was regarding the DOS QuietDrive; by all accounts it is the same product with a new board and drivers. If Neptune were to offer that as a DIY upgrade kit, I'm sure they could capture additional marketspace as well.

That I can see as happening and a good idea.

 

[theatrus]

Mic drop moment right there.

That I can see as happening and a good idea.

I'm with you - comparing the price to a manual test kit is sort of missing the point.

As for upgrades, I'm not so sure. Most manufacturers won't quite be as happy with opening up the case and out PCBs. IIRC there is even some hot snot in there. That said, EcoTech did sell the wifi module upgrades requiring you to pop open the pump controllers so anything is possible.

 

[areefer01]

Kessil just released a new light based off the existing a360x. It is called the a360xe. Slight changes to form factor to accommodate some change. Not much different than what Neptune did here.

My point is that manufacturers do this a lot regardless of setting. How many years do auto manufacturers use the same platform base? Engine block? List goes on. I think we should cut Neptune some slack.

 

[cubsfan16]

Unfortunately my Hanna’s can’t test for
me when I’m traveling and dependent on dosing to maintain nutrients. This is what makes this so appealing to me. If I was home everyday, Hanna’s meet the need. I won’t rely on my dos to auto dose but can certainly adjust dose rate while away. Also like the idea of legacy dos upgrade.

 

[BrokenReefer]

I'm with you - comparing the price to a manual test kit is sort of missing the point.

As for upgrades, I'm not so sure. Most manufacturers won't quite be as happy with opening up the case and out PCBs. IIRC there is even some hot snot in there. That said, EcoTech did sell the wifi module upgrades requiring you to pop open the pump controllers so anything is possible.

I realize my comparison isn’t the most elegant and I am sure I would have probably made a similar statement when the original Trident came out.

Unfortunately my Hanna’s can’t test for
me when I’m traveling and dependent on dosing to maintain nutrients. This is what makes this so appealing to me. If I was home everyday, Hanna’s meet the need. I won’t rely on my dos to auto dose but can certainly adjust dose rate while away. Also like the idea of legacy dos upgrade.

Precisely and why I said that my particular case doesn’t warrant the product. My buddy works in the oil industry down in Louisiana and I can definitely see a use case for those folks who work on those rigs for weeks and months at a time.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I don't know, how important is testing when you're out of town? Is this another concept foisted upon us through marketing?

 

[buruskeee]

Neptune was smart to re-use the same mold as the original Trident, it got them ahead of Hydros by 6 months

Hydros still has to figure out how they want to hold all the reagents or make the buyer figure it out for themselves.

It also is surprising that they didnt change their direction from a "module only" based unit to a stand alone or hybrid based design. IE could run it by itself and not need a brain, or have it connected to a system, like the neptune return pump, ATK, or Sky lights.

I’m not familiar with either of those three products - do they all have their own UI app or are they just all used without software?

As for upgrades, I'm not so sure. Most manufacturers won't quite be as happy with opening up the case and out PCBs. IIRC there is even some hot snot in there. That said, EcoTech did sell the wifi module upgrades requiring you to pop open the pump controllers so anything is possible.

There’s an upgrade kit for Radions to switch over while PCBs and lenses from G5 to G6. They also already send over Trident DIY refurbishing kits to replace the pump and lines.

 

[buruskeee]

I’m going to take out my crystal ball and make a prediction.

They release the N/P unit. And no less than a year and no more than 2 years later, they announce the release of a single Trident that does all. The cost will be more than a single trident but less than buying 2. They will frame it as “we’ve listened to your demands” and here’s the new product. But all they really did was hem most into buying the second trident, then offering an all in one, knowing that a lot people will trade up for a single unit, as it’s smaller than 2 and more convenient and just plain ol “new” equipment to burn money on.

I think this is more complex than that. Would they use 2 dosing heads or still a single one?

Since the drain of the NP needs to use some other chemical to neutralize, would that mean separate lines for Alk/Cal/Mag?

How big is this unit going to be? As big as the Mastertronic? Will that be a deterrent to new buyers?

Let’s say they did offer a new All in One (although huge) and also the NP, would that cannibalize sales?

A company’s first priority is making sure it’s profitable and can sustain longevity. Scamming or ripping off customers would be counter productive to this. Pricing themselves out of the market also jeopardizes their future wellbeing. Companies developing products to sell at just over break even wouldn’t last very long.

While I’m not too ecstatic about having to figure out where to place another module if I bought one, or the price point without reagents, I’m sure Neptune thought this out thoroughly.

 

[cubsfan16]

I don't know, how important is testing when you're out of town? Is this another concept foisted upon us through marketing?

If you have several thousand dollars worth of SPS and bottom out your nutrients you may think about it differently. Alternatively you can hire someone to check in on it and dose for you. It would pay for itself in a couple trips.

Of course you could argue getting your dosing set right from the start so there isn’t drastic slow swings, but that can also be a challenge once your feeding routine changes while you are out of town. I figure to each their own, it’s not for everyone and likely most aren’t dependent on dosing to maintain nutrients. If I didn’t have a trident I would be arguing the same for a combined unit.

 

[thedon986]

The solution is simple, wait six months and pick one up half price on the classifieds.

 

[ca1ore]

It appears to be just laziness on the part of Neptune to make the N/P a separate unit. They could increase the length of the unit to accommodate the required reagents to test all 5. Who want 2 ugly tridents crammed into a already crowded sump area…

Oh I doubt it’s laziness. Imagine it would have been pretty simple to offer a single unit that tested all five, but it would be large (something new to complain about). Would also make folks that had already spent $650 on the original trident feel like they were rebuying. Latter may be the most salient point. I imagine Neptune figure that a sizable percentage of NP buyers already have the original trident. I think if I were in their shoes, I’d have done precisely the same thing.

 

[RoanokeReef]

The cost of the device isn't awful but the reagents are since their life ticks away once mixed making the "hack" to make a 2 month kit last longer maybe useless. Hopefully though maybe they will last longer mixed or ABC comes out with some cheaper versions.