BetURWrasse
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I don't know, but feel free to add me to the test team! I have experience in R&D
Something to think about for the weekend..
- Thread starter RandoReefer
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OP
OP
Really great stuff so far guys!! Thanks!
Anything else? Refugium specific light fixture? What about return pumps....with QuietDrive technology and a motor on the outside of the sump wall (or completely external)?
The same size as the Radion XR15 or XR30? Something smaller like the AquaIllumination Prime fixture?
You should fill out the application on their website!
Randy
EcoTech Product Test Team
Anything else? Refugium specific light fixture? What about return pumps....with QuietDrive technology and a motor on the outside of the sump wall (or completely external)?
The same size as the Radion XR15 or XR30? Something smaller like the AquaIllumination Prime fixture?
You should fill out the application on their website! Randy
EcoTech Product Test Team
shawncp00
Well-Known Member
Something like the size of the 30's, I think it'd be awesome if eco tech made lights almost equal in price with the evergrows. Of course I know they'll come with a little bit of a higher price tag.
kc350twin
Active Member
I feel you on the return pumps. What about something for the basement sump guys. High head? Massive flow? Low wattage. Internal or external? I'm sure there are massive engineering hurdles with this but you guys always push the envelope.
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OP
OP
Im sure lots of us would love the EcoTech name slapped on a nice fixture in that price range! Somehow I doubt they'd go that route though, because of the market quality they've built synonymous with their name. Dare we dream of a cheaper fixture under a new brand name from the same folks that brought you EcoTech? Then again, the market is already flooded in that department.
With all the variations of light colors and intensities that the Radions can produce, this may already be possible. Really makes a person want to snorkel those shallows and start taking PAR/color temp readings, though! If only I wasn't landlocked in the plains!! [emoji30]
I like where this is going! I'll be a basement sump guy myself, soon. You give me an EcoTech pump (that speaks to EcoSmartLive) that can power up 16'-20' of head with enough flow for 500+ gallons.....I may be the first in line!!
But then this "controllability" train of thought kicks in. I'm an avid Apex user. How are you going to talk me into converting to an EcoTech equipment specific tank while offering all that my Apex does for me?? Big can of worms to hypothetically open here....
Good stuff all! Thanks, and let's keep rolling!
Randy
EcoTech Product Test Team
thejuggernaut
Active Member
Cheaper LED, less features, and different combinations have all been done. Ecotech is all about top quality. If you want to make less advanced, less powerful systems you will join a very large market segment that is FLOODED. To me the biggest hurdle for LED only fixtures hasn't been color or intensity. It is spread and that disco effect. That is why you see so many people flocking to the LED/T5 combos. I give you good light spread, but you still get shimmer. Although your Radions make good colors and I rarely see anyone run them at 100% intensity because of how much light they put out, I still think the spread is lacking. Usually, the way this has been combated was to either raise the light or use different lenses. While disco effect has been reduced by grouping the LEDs together in pucks like yours, or with arrays like Kessil, it still doesn't eliminate it. Spreading out the LEDs to give better spread usually increase the disco effect. So it is a fine line between spread and shimmer refraction (disco effect). My idea would be to design a fixture that uses a reflector like the large coralvue reflectors for MH bulbs. Instead of shining the LEDs directly onto the water, face them upwards into a specially designed reflector that would spread the light out evenly over a larger area. Maybe try making the PCB dome shaped to even further reduce a hot spot. You may loose a little intensity, but like I said before. Most people don't run your fixtures at full intensity anyways. Also, dimpling the reflector like the Sunlight supply MH reflectors would aid in diffusing the light to further help reduce or even eliminate the disco effect. A larger domed style reflector that would give me the spread of a 250-400 watt (32"-36" square coverage) would truly be a MH replacement and would open you up to a much larger base. I would gladly pay $1000-1200 for a fixture if I only needed two to cover a 300DD tank. As it sits now, I would need almost 8 Radion pros to do that. Putting it out of reach for most. Just an idea, but I think the next big advancement in LEDs for this industry won't be a software update, or marginally better LEDs. It will be a change in the form of the fixtures.
Daniel@R2R
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My Tank Thread
+1 Great idea here!
thejuggernaut
Active Member
I've been thinking about it for awhile, and it is the reason why I still won't jump on the LED only bandwagon. If I had the capital to R&D a product on par with Ecotech's quality, I would have already designed one myself.
With the advances in wireless tech these days I would like to see the radions talk directly to my computer, phone etc.
Eliminate the need for a reeflink.
If AI can do it for $200 in the prime I am sure its possible in a radion.
Would be nice to be able to make adjustments with iPhone iPad right out of the box.
Eliminate the need for a reeflink.
If AI can do it for $200 in the prime I am sure its possible in a radion.
Would be nice to be able to make adjustments with iPhone iPad right out of the box.
How about an EcoTech Heater? It doesn't have to be wireless, it just has to work for more than a year at a time.
Or for the bigger tank/budget guys, and heater/chiller combo for the ultimate in temp control?
Or for the bigger tank/budget guys, and heater/chiller combo for the ultimate in temp control?
this is one thing about leds i just don't understand.
Unless you and i don't mean you personally but anyone simply doesn't have room to keep them higher why would you ever want to lower the fixture and lower the intensity? I mean of course the spread is worse. I ran my radion at 100% about 18-19 inches off the surface an spread was nearly perfect using three fixtures on a 7" shallow tank. on my display i was at about 16-18 easy. I just don't understand the logic of turning the intensity down lowering the fixture and complaining about spread? sorry to hijack the thread here maybe someone cane clue me in?
jlanger
Well-Known Member
Mimicking Tidal Flow in Our Reefs
This is an idea I brought up in my local forum last fall.
There was limited discussion and it fell to the wayside during the holiday season.
The following is copies of my original posts outlining my thoughts and ideas.
And this was my second response trying to visual explain my thoughts for a EcoSmart program mimicking tidal flow.
In my illustration above, the orange and blue graphs depict the power and duration of the Vortech pump. The Blue line graph depicts the time and height of the daily tide.
As the tide rushes in/out, I feel the Vortech pumps would run at the set maximum setting for that day. When the tides reach high/low tide, the pumps run at their lowest setting as the water flow begins to transition the other direction.
I have recently synched my Vortech pumps with my Apex WXM Module and Controller, so I may try to figure out a way to achieve something similar to this using the already existing EcoSmart Modes.
I am trying to think if there is a way to use the Seasonal Modes to incorporate the rising/falling maximum settings that correlate with the lunar cycle.
If Ecotech Marine would like to take this into consideration for a new EcoSmart Mode, I would be glad to assist in any way needed.
Thanks for reading through all of this.
And any additional thoughts would be greatly appreciated; possibly a new thread of its own on R2R?
This is an idea I brought up in my local forum last fall.
There was limited discussion and it fell to the wayside during the holiday season.
The following is copies of my original posts outlining my thoughts and ideas.
I would like to open up some discussion on trying to mimic the water flow found on the reef in our own aquariums.
This has been on my mind for a while, but I thought I would open it up to the masses for more insight and ideas.
Abstract:
Ever since EcoTech Marine updated their ReefLink to work with their VorTech water pumps, I have wanted to try and create a program to create a more realistic representation of what the water flow is actually like on the reefs.
EcoTech Marine has done their research and have created a couple of modes to simulate what flow is like on the reefs.
I have been doing quite a bit of reading and researching of what actually happens during the cycles of water flow on the reefs.
Having owned and used the VorTech pumps for four years, I have tried various modes and settings. These pumps do create a very nice random flow in my tank; I'm not complaining. But I still have not found what I am looking for.
I think with this discussion and further research, we can find what I am trying to achieve with my water flow.
And in all actuality, there may be no beneficial effect from all of this; just like running static moon lights every night.
Equipment and Methodology:
I currently use four VorTech water pumps on my 120gal; two MP40's and 2 MP10's. Each MP40 is paired with an MP10 which are located on opposite side of the tank. The pairs are run anti-synched; so the MP40 on the right is synch with the MP10 on the left and vice versa.
I primarily run the pumps using the EcoSmart Tidal Swell Mode. The night before I do water changes, I switch to the EcoSmart Nutrient Transport Mode.
Here's EcoTech's specifications about these two modes.
With the EcoSmart Tidal Swell Mode, the flow pattern will shift from an emphasis on chaotic left-to-right flow direction into a right-to-left flow direction, with periods of calm in between – followed by a great surge of flow at the very end of the cycle.
With the EcoSmart Nutrient Transport Mode, water is circulated in two phases – a wave motion to stir up detritus, and a surging motion to move the detritus into your overflow.
Long ago, I asked EcoTech Marine how long the cycles were for each mode.
Each mode cycles in 2-½ hours; the pulses in the NTM are for 45 minutes and the swelling is for 30 minutes each.
So as I have dabbled with the EcoSmart Live program, I was trying to find a way to create the "perfect" program to mimic the water flow on the reef.
I know many people like to ramp down the flow during the overnight hours. And some people even run all through all options during the course of the day.
To find the program I wanted, I knew I had to do more research.
Research and Findings:
I started my research with books that I already owned; Delbeek and Sprung's "The Reef Aquarium" series and "The Encyclopedia of Modern Coral Reefs". I moved on to various reefing webpages on water flow in reef tanks. On a whim, I expanded my search outside of the aquarium hobby and I stumbled on to a couple of books/papers discussing tidal swells. It wasn't until I started reading about tidal ebb and flood that I knew I found what I was looking for.
This hobby has spent a lot of effort discussing (and selling) the importance of the lunar cycle in respect to lighting, but not enough on the effect of water flow.
I should have figured this out earlier.
When I was running the Vertex Illumina LED fixture over my reef system, it had a lunar cycle for the moonlighting that would ramp up/down in conjunction with the actual lunar cycle.
One book was worth looking into is "The Dynamics of Coastal Models"; particularly the Effect of Changing Water Level on Flow Over Reefs.
In a paper directed at bodysurfing, "Ebb and Flood: The Science of Tides" discusses and details the changing flow of our ocean's water during the lunar cycle. The paper exhibited a couple of interesting graphs that more than reinforced that this was what I was trying to figure out for my tank.
This graph shows the tidal differences during the course of each day over one month.
And this graph shows various tides and their respective levels during a 24 hour period.
Based from these last two resources, I am trying to figure out how I can create a program for my water pumps to mimic these findings.
Using the modes that are available with the VorTechs, there must be a way to create the variable flow of a true tidal ebb and flood within the aquarium.
Criteria:
To achieve a more true tidal swell, I feel that the two EcoSmart Modes need to be combined somehow into one program.
I like the effect from the Tidal Swell Mode of changing the direction of the flow from one side to the other.
But I do not like that the cycle only lasts 2-½ hours and that both pumps run simultaneously.
I like the effect from the EcoSmart Nutrient Transport Mode that creates short bursts of flow that ramp up over time.
But I do not like that the anti-synched pump immediately pushes back against that flow.
The ideal program should create a semidiurnal tide (two high tides and two low tides) in a 24 hour period.
My Ideas and Thoughts:
To keep the effect of water surge, the pumps should run in a pulse mode; maintaining the "lovely" swaying motion of the coral's polyps.
When creating the ebb or flood, only run one pair of pumps at a time. Maybe running both pairs just during the peaks and valleys of high/low tide could create more random flow during the changing of the tide.
As the tides change, the ramping up and down of the pump's flow and pulses increase and decrease with the tide.
In looking at the final graph, when the graphed line is at it's steepest, the flow and pulse would be at it's greatest. When the line starts to level out, the flow and pulse are weaker.
If I had the time, I could create a graphic depicting the above ideas to better clarify my thoughts. Maybe later.
Think of it as almost like combining the two EcoTech graphs into one; pulses that ramp up and down over time against each other.
But I'm still struggling on how to create the more dramatic changes with the lunar cycle; as shown in the "January 2014" graph.
The water flow and pulses would be more dramatic during the new and full moon cycles, and more stable during the half moon phases.
The EcoSmart Live, as far as I now, only works on a daily cycle; not a monthly cycle.
I'm not sure if I had the pumps controlled through a secondary controller, like an Apex, that I might be able to create a monthly cycle.
Discussion:
So after reading through all of this…
Does anyone have any additional thoughts about trying to create a tidal/lunar cycle with the VorTech water pumps?
As I wrote all of this out, many things fell into place for me concerning what I was looking for.
It's just trying to figure out the specific and getting it to work that is still open for discussion.
As like I stated earlier, none of this may have any effect on such a small system.
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for any input.
And this was my second response trying to visual explain my thoughts for a EcoSmart program mimicking tidal flow.
Thanks Jonty for reaching out to the NA Apex forum about this.
Maybe this will kickstart further development of some programming options.
Anyways, here's a quick illustration trying to explain my late night ramblings.
So over a 24 hour period, there will be two cycles by each pair of pumps.
It is hard to tell in this smaller graphic but as the pulses get stronger, they also get longer.
Overlapping the two pumps for a brief time will create the random flow of whirlpools and eddies created during the tidal switch.
So the trick to simulate the lunar cycle would be to change the Max% of the pumps over 28 days.
During the full/new moon phase, the Max% would be greatest; say 80%
And during the half moon phases, the Max% would only be about 40%.
In my illustration above, the orange and blue graphs depict the power and duration of the Vortech pump. The Blue line graph depicts the time and height of the daily tide.
As the tide rushes in/out, I feel the Vortech pumps would run at the set maximum setting for that day. When the tides reach high/low tide, the pumps run at their lowest setting as the water flow begins to transition the other direction.
I have recently synched my Vortech pumps with my Apex WXM Module and Controller, so I may try to figure out a way to achieve something similar to this using the already existing EcoSmart Modes.
I am trying to think if there is a way to use the Seasonal Modes to incorporate the rising/falling maximum settings that correlate with the lunar cycle.
If Ecotech Marine would like to take this into consideration for a new EcoSmart Mode, I would be glad to assist in any way needed.
Thanks for reading through all of this.
And any additional thoughts would be greatly appreciated; possibly a new thread of its own on R2R?
thejuggernaut
Active Member
That has not been my experience when viewing Radions. Like I said before, they produce allot of light and have good coloring, but I would want one every 18-20" because you can see allot of light fall off when you get to 24". Maybe in a 7" deep tank you could get away with spreading them out further, but on a 30" deep tank, I would not be happy with them at any height if they were 24" apart. They produce a different light spread, and no matter how high you raise them, they are coming down in a cone shape, so it creates different looking shadows. A MH reflector bounces the light around and shines it down at more of a wide beam straight down. Look at vehicle headlights. To get more light penetration down the road, they block the bulb from shining forward, and shine the bulbs backwards towards the car into a reflector. It shapes the light into more of a beam, and shoots it down the road. That is just me, and and like I said, Radions are top of the line LED lighting, but I like lighting that is shaped more like a MH. I think it could be possible with a LED fixture, but no one has taken the time to R&D one. If it was done right, I would buy one. I imagine allot of people would to. JMHO
hybridazn
Acro killer.....
That's what reefbrites are, minus the Wi-Fi
eg8r210
Well-Known Member
I have never thought of this until you mentioned it but now I can't stop thinking about it. Keep the heat on the outside but not have to worry about cutting holes and plumbing the pump externally. Less heat issue, no leak issues, great idea.
Make it very powerful and wireless. I want the ability to have it just turn on, not another controller like all the other DC pumps, and ability to connect wirelessly to the ReefLink for those who want to control the pump in ways other than on and off. My biggest fear is that it will come in at a ridiculous price like the Red Dragon line. I am really leaning towards the new pumps from Deepwater but don't want the controller. I love the price points also, so if Ecotech could stay competitively priced I think this could be a great hit.
thejuggernaut
Active Member
You guys have me thinking about what kind of products I would produce if I was Ecotech. I would try to produce a swiveling wet-side for your powerheads. Have the magnet attach like normal to the glass, but have the prop attached using a titanium u-joint, so you could adjust the direction of the flow. You could offer the normal wetsides for the side glass, or angled (maybe even fixed 90 degree) ones for the rear glass. It would help keep the flow moving in a gyre on long or deep tanks. Or just be able to direct the flow into dead zones behind rocks. Or you could always develop a magnetically coupled squirrel cage style powerhead. LOL
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