Dying Zoas. Need help, please.

[JRig]

Hi guys and gals.
I need help with my Zoas, please. They started receding a few weeks ago and I haven't been able to stop it. All my other corals look great and are growing very well. I thought their initial unhappines was due to my stock lighting in a 29 gal biocube so I upgraded to a Kessil A160WE with a spectral controller. I programmed the new light for a 7 day acclimation and have had it on normal program for almost 2 weeks now. Two days ago I gave them a dip in Seachem Reef Dip and moved them down to the sand bed.

I use Red Sea coral pro salt and dose Seachem Aqua Vitro products. I use Boyd's Chemipure Elite and Seachem Purigen in with my filtration.
Here's a link to my aquarium log spreadsheet that has all my testing and dosing data.

I really need your help. What should I do next? I've read in some older threads that a treatment of Boyd's Chemiclean can sometimes help with weird zoa problems, but I haven't tried it yet. I'm kinda broke after purchasing the Kessil and my wife's impulse pufferfish purchase.

 

[JRig]

Here's the original full-size pic posted above:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8NL-X3hNO9MTUwwRHhzWVlvYk0/view?usp=sharing

Here's my Kessil lighting schedule

Time	Color	Intensity
9:30	0	5
11:00	20	15
12:00	40	75
14:00	50	80
17:00	25	70
18:00	0	0

 

[scardall]

Really doubt lighting now

Maybe a fish or shrimp is harrasing them. A pufferfishis not the best choice for a reef. Water movement ,another idea

 

[bboyvital]

if all water params are in check have you tried putting them in a more shaded area and see how they respond? I would also consider acclimating to the LED a little slower. Going up to 80% in a week seems a little fast in my experience. I started my LEDs at max 20% and am still slowly going up.

 

[JRig]

if all water params are in check have you tried putting them in a more shaded area and see how they respond? I would also consider acclimating to the LED a little slower. Going up to 80% in a week seems a little fast in my experience. I started my LEDs at max 20% and am still slowly going up.

I went up to 50% in the first week and then to 80% the second week. I'll try moving one to a shady area. Thanks.

 

[JRig]

Maybe a fish or shrimp is harrasing them. A pufferfishis not the best choice for a reef. Water movement ,another idea

Puffer was added long after they showed signs of stress. I've been watching Puff Daddy very closely and he hasn't bothered anything. I moved my web cam closer to the tank so i could keep an eye on him. He's only going to be in this tank temporarily... moving out within the next two weeks.

 

[saltyphish]

What are your parameters? Numbers please, that will help people help you. I have a 29G biocube and had major problems keeping zoas happy. My flow was too much for one thing (Not stock) and I kept my tank too clean. Zoas want some nitrates and phosphates. I keep my nitrates at 5ppm now and have even been able to increase my flow as well and now they are doing really well.

 

[saltyphish]

Also while zoas don't use cal,Mag, and alk from what I have heard. I know that when my alk dropped to 7.8 I had issues until I bumped it back up to 9.2 dkh. I have used the chemiclean for cyano in the past and had no negative effects. I too have read that chemiclean sometimes help them out of their funk. Have you tried dipping them in lugol's? Or maybe there is a pest bothering them.

 

[ReeferBean]

You can also try some Furan 2.

 

[Tahoe61]

Maybe a fish or shrimp is harrasing them. A pufferfishis not the best choice for a reef. Water movement ,another idea

This.

Hard to maintain water quality and maintain a puffer in such a small volume of water, then there is that thing they like to do like eat certain corals.

 

[JRig]

What are your parameters? Numbers please, that will help people help you. I have a 29G biocube and had major problems keeping zoas happy. My flow was too much for one thing (Not stock) and I kept my tank too clean. Zoas want some nitrates and phosphates. I keep my nitrates at 5ppm now and have even been able to increase my flow as well and now they are doing really well.

All of my water parameters for the past several months are in the link in the original post.
"Here's a link to my aquarium log spreadsheet that has all my testing and dosing data."

I've heard that zoas like slightly dirty water , but I haven't heard that really clean water will kill them. My water is almost always at undetectable levels of nitrate and phosphate. Tomorrow I'll remove the Purigen and see what happens.

One thing that I did forget to mention was my fish stock. 2 clowns, royal gramma, leopard puffer, 1chromis, 1 banded choral shrimp, & CUC

 

[JRig]

This.

Hard to maintain water quality and maintain a puffer in such a small volume of water, then there is that thing they like to do like eat certain corals.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm sure that it's not the puffer. The pufferfish was added long after the zoas started showing signs of trouble. He's only been in the tank for 2 days.

Here's information from my LFS on this particular puffer:
"The Tetraodon nigroviridis is actually a brackish water pufferfish that we acclimate to saltwater and train to be reef-safe. Our training program takes 5 weeks to complete there are only 18 individuals per class. To pass the fish must show no interest in nipping at corals, chasing small fish, nor attempt to eat Peppermint Shrimp. All graduates will follow you around the tank begging for food and will eat any frozen food right out of your hand. Some individuals will even eat New Era Marine Flake food. Leopard Pufferfish are full of personality and their captivating activities make them a joy to interact with. Typically the Leopard Puffer maxes out at 3 inches in captivity and requires at least a 30 gallon tank. This is a peaceful intermediate care level reef-caution fish. Meaning that most individuals are reef-safe but an occasional individual may eat small ornamental inverts such Sexy Shrimp."

 

[Tahoe61]

No probably not the Puffer. My experience with friends that have kept Puffer types in nano is that all eventually ended up with algae issues. You're absolutely right it's not a bigger Puffer type and probably will not cause issue with eating corals.

Dipping the Zoanthids seems like a smart move, and do the Furan if possible.

 

[jdpeters]

i got two small frags that arent doing well either. hard for me to enjoy the tank with them like that, regardless that the rest of the tank is doing awesome. i used seachem reef dip last night also but no improvement yet. hope yours turn around

 

[saltyphish]

Mine started out not opening and then slowly started getting smaller and smaller. I blamed the low nutrients for that since once I started directly feeding them and allowing nitrates to build a little they improved. Your puffer like some have mentioned may be a problem as well. I have also had vermitid snails, and digitate hydroids agitate them

All of my water parameters for the past several months are in the link in the original post.
"Here's a link to my aquarium log spreadsheet that has all my testing and dosing data."

I've heard that zoas like slightly dirty water , but I haven't heard that really clean water will kill them. My water is almost always at undetectable levels of nitrate and phosphate. Tomorrow I'll remove the Purigen and see what happens.

One thing that I did forget to mention was my fish stock. 2 clowns, royal gramma, leopard puffer, 1chromis, 1 banded choral shrimp, & CUC

 

[TheClark]

Mine started out not opening and then slowly started getting smaller and smaller. I blamed the low nutrients for that since once I started directly feeding them and allowing nitrates to build a little they improved. Your puffer like some have mentioned may be a problem as well. I have also had vermitid snails, and digitate hydroids agitate them

Hey SaltyPhish,

How did you get rid of your digitate hydroids? Did they go away eventually on their own?

 

[saltyphish]

I tried plucking them only to have them come back again and again. I would dig into the rock and only had that work successfully for one. The only thing that worked for me was superglue. When you mess with them they retract into the rock once they were in the rock a dab of superglue on the spot sealed them in. This in my experience is the best way to deal with them. They will sting zoas and other corals causing them to not open up and recede. I bought the Loctite gel superglue in the easy control bottle. The one where you have to squeeze the sides to get the glue out. I could not remove the rock so I just stuck the bottle in the tank and squeezed it on the spot. Problem solved. Make sure whatever superglue you use has cyanoacrylate in the main ingredients that is the one that is reef safe. Here is a link for the one I am talking about.Loctite 4g Ultra Gel Control Super Glue Bottle-1363589 - The Home Depot I would hate to read someone took my advice but got the wrong stuff and wiped out their tank. The tubes are cheaper but the bottle in my opinion works best for control.

Hey SaltyPhish,

How did you get rid of your digitate hydroids? Did they go away eventually on their own?

 

[TheClark]

I tried plucking them only to have them come back again and again. I would dig into the rock and only had that work successfully for one. The only thing that worked for me was superglue. When you mess with them they retract into the rock once they were in the rock a dab of superglue on the spot sealed them in. This in my experience is the best way to deal with them. They will sting zoas and other corals causing them to not open up and recede. I bought the Loctite gel superglue in the easy control bottle. The one where you have to squeeze the sides to get the glue out. I could not remove the rock so I just stuck the bottle in the tank and squeezed it on the spot. Problem solved. Make sure whatever superglue you use has cyanoacrylate in the main ingredients that is the one that is reef safe. Here is a link for the one I am talking about.Loctite 4g Ultra Gel Control Super Glue Bottle-1363589 - The Home Depot I would hate to read someone took my advice but got the wrong stuff and wiped out their tank. The tubes are cheaper but the bottle in my opinion works best for control.

Awesome, thanks! I do get them sometimes, and they definitely do make a colony close up. Dips don't seem to touch em, great tutorial on the super glue method.

 

[luke33]

Sounds like they were getting to much light imo. Shading them at this point doesn't sound like its going to do anything but may as well try. If they have shrunk up a lot they most likely will melt away eventually. As far as your water being to clean or alk to low I don't see this as the problem. I have kept zoa's very happy in tanks with no detectable phos or trates and have kept them in 6-10 alk ranges just fine. Generally I get best growth with alk around 8 and phos around .05. Trates I always keep at less than 5. Puffer is a cool little guy but pry not the best thing to have in there. If he was picking on the zoa's you would know it as they are not going to harass them, they will just take out chunks.

 

[Waters]

I hear what you're saying, but I'm sure that it's not the puffer. The pufferfish was added long after the zoas started showing signs of trouble. He's only been in the tank for 2 days.

Here's information from my LFS on this particular puffer:
"The Tetraodon nigroviridis is actually a brackish water pufferfish that we acclimate to saltwater and train to be reef-safe. Our training program takes 5 weeks to complete there are only 18 individuals per class. To pass the fish must show no interest in nipping at corals, chasing small fish, nor attempt to eat Peppermint Shrimp. All graduates will follow you around the tank begging for food and will eat any frozen food right out of your hand. Some individuals will even eat New Era Marine Flake food. Leopard Pufferfish are full of personality and their captivating activities make them a joy to interact with. Typically the Leopard Puffer maxes out at 3 inches in captivity and requires at least a 30 gallon tank. This is a peaceful intermediate care level reef-caution fish. Meaning that most individuals are reef-safe but an occasional individual may eat small ornamental inverts such Sexy Shrimp."

I don't know why but I found the LFS statement very humerous lol. Do they charge more for a fish that passes their 5 week course? They must never of had a Dwarf Angel that was fine for a year than went Incredible Hulk on the tank