Radium metal halide bulbs will not be produced anymore!

TaylorPilot

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If you're referring to input, that's true. Not true if you're referring to heat output. A 1,000W MH bulb doesn't produce light with every watt of power input. Heat is actually a waste product. A 1,000W heater is designed to produce maximum heat output as the primary product (note there's no light produced).
If you are supplying 1000watts of power to an LED array and 1000 watts to a MH, you are making the exact same amount of heat...It is the conservation of energy...It doesn't matter how much more efficient it is at producing visible light, it all gets converted to heat, rapidly, as the visible light gets absorbed into the water, corals, rocks, glass, and walls of your home. MH does produce more UV, that is absorbed into the water , where as most of the LED heat is vented out the top using large heat sinks and active cooling, the the total BTU is the same...

the original argument was that you didn't need as many watts of LED to make the same amount of light, and like @jda has been saying, with typical setups you are not seeing any savings in power...I saw a video on BRS the other day where they were talking about the switch to LED a decade ago, and how they all thought they would save energy, but that has proven to not be true...

They use the same amount of power on similar systems, produce the same amount of heat into your home and typically cost more to setup, with a break even period far beyond the avg time that someone is in this hobby...Their advantage is form factor, and their selling points are the ability to tune the light, change the intensity, and not having to change bulbs, oh and they all have iPhone apps...
 

Reefering1

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@crit21 , sorry your post changed... but I thought I was being a jerk to a guy. If you're a female, idk... my type is kind of feisty
 

oreo54

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Yes, yes it is...You don't understand physics...what do think think happens to all that energy?
You need to look at it a different way though..
First the answer to where those photons go.
The important ones into sugars.
Best add this is just a few percent of the total though.
So a watt is a watt but you cannot ignore what the importance of the transitional states..
It's all heat doesn't define useless vs useful heat along the err "train of custody".

In photosynthesis, solar energy is harvested as chemical energy in a process that converts water and carbon dioxide to glucose. Oxygen is released as a byproduct. In cellular respiration, oxygen is used to break down glucose, releasing chemical energy and heat in the process.
There your stored heat shows up in respiration. Meanwhile you get growth or at least survival.

Pumps are different, different intermediate states.

But let me ask you this, if you decrease the resistance in the motor winding but input the same power do you not get more work done? Less heat lost in the copper, more energy to spin the pump.
So you could decrease the watts to produce the same output.
Regardless of the later water friction conversion.

Watt may be a watt but the by-products and where it is stored then released are different.

Useful watts vs useless to a goal.
Lots of possible "discussions" regarding that.

Oh and that wattage that converts liquid water to vapor, gets blown off by a fan and then condenses on your walls ect ,releasing that stored heat.. is pretty arguably useless watts.

Yea those that didn't quite make it to vapor adds to the tank.
Wouldn't you rather have all that as photons?

Again, lots of possible "discussions" regarding that.

Your right though it is sort of a zero sum game but the "distribution" and "timing" is different.

Maybe I'm wrong but the difference between X useable photons per watt vs X x y photons seems important.
As does where the heat goes.
And the argument that you need the same wattage as a MH still goes on.

Didn't help that the watt efficiency of "old" leds did not even come close to matching that of a MH.
Like 50L/watt vs 75L/watt (guesstimates).

Fortunately (or not) you had better "focus" and the heat was more distributed up (and out) of the system over MH going down and in.

And yes, kind of pointless discussing heat differences.
A lot of this goes to the fact that some can use the MH heat, others it is a detriment to the tank.
The "room" is secondary and mostly pointless to discuss since it has a complete set of its own heat storing or dissipating characteristics..
THIS below is true to this day. In the past not so much.
the original argument was that you didn't need as many watts of LED to make the same amount of light
Using the easiest metric to find, leds are in the 150-ish Lumens/watt area. Other bulbs are not.

Out of most of the "hobbies" I checked inc. Orchids,Freshwater and pot most get measured PAR greater or equal to competing technologies using less watts. Whats "special" here is what is interesting.
Usually 2 to 1. Much of this is by the more efficient delivery of said PAR. Some is the basic more output for the same power.
Go figure.

The "heat exchange" is an individual thing. Some in tight houses can't handle the condensation and possible mold/rot caused by the cook off of tank water. Or they lose more water /week than with leds.
Saltwaters not free for most people.
It's not simple.
Many use Sanjay as an example since he replaced his MH's with radions and run them at 100% Basically a "watt equality" and some say he even uses more watts. I don't personally know either way or if his heater is using more power than the past. Or if his bill is higher (equalizing for cost increases of course)
Just know he got rid of his chiller whos failure cause a die off.
Pretty much was his goal regardless of watt vs watt. One less failure point.

Then there are other s who insist they are saving money (not going to quantify it since it varies by Kwatt charges) and getting the same results.
Probably as many who say they don't.
Maybe they have their lights to high or a number of other things. Don't know.


Bottom line: it could or couldn't save money. Normally does not seem to cost more money.
would make sense in the watt is a watt world. :)
And the YMMV applies. There is no blanket statements here at least in my opinion.



.


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t5Nitro

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Physics
1701225325046.png
 

TaylorPilot

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You need to look at it a different way though..



.


.
I agree with almost everything you are saying. I even gave the caveat you are talking about the efficiency of desired light spectrum being produced.

All I was saying is that almost everyone now is saying that to get the same level of performance over a given sized tank, you will be inputting the exact same amount of wattage, regardless of lighting type, which will output the exact same amount of heat, albeit through different forms. I think there are a lot of people on here thinking that different lighting types at the same wattage will not produce the same amount of heat, so your HVAC won't have to work as hard, that isn't the case...

I think what is confusing him is the diffusion of heat...30 watts of light shining on a wall vs a 30 watt soldering iron...it's the same amount of heat, but one is going to burn you and the other you won't even be able to tell it is heating up. My wife uses a 1000 watt hair dryer to dry her hair...I use an 100 watt laser to blow holes in 1/2" wood...they both produce the same btu/watt, its just the concentration of the heat. To me, everything inside the conditioned envelope of my home is what I care about...whether it comes from my lights, my pumps or my heaters, it all costs me the same amount of money to produce it, and the same amount of money to remove it...
 

Reefering1

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Funny, you came across as a woman, calling me sweetie. If you're a dude, I'm flattered, but...
Lol. Like a "woman", that's exactly what I was thinking when I wrote it, thinking you were a guy. Nothing to see here people, just a couple guys being jerks. Either way, leds suck!
 

oreo54

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Ok got a question for you. What is your feelings on Reefbrite claim of their more err efficient ( less heat) mh fixtures.
Their 250W bulb is still 250 watts
 

TaylorPilot

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Ok got a question for you. What is your feelings on Reefbrite claim of their more err efficient ( less heat) mh fixtures.
Their 250W bulb is still 250 watts
It's marketing, but can you blame them...they are fighting an uphill battle of uninformed consumers. They may more efficiently produce light, and the fixture may be cooler, but they still produce 250 watts of combined heat...It doesn't matter if it is a 250 watt LED unit, a 250 watt MH, or a 250 watt space heater...they will all put 250 watts of heat into your home...
 

Reefering1

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Ok got a question for you. What is your feelings on Reefbrite claim of their more err efficient ( less heat) mh fixtures.
Their 250W bulb is still 250 watts
I think they just came up with a fixture that transfers heat away so you don't burn yourself on the metal housing. Does the bulb actually burn cooler, idk, maybe. I'm not qualified to answer that question
 

TaylorPilot

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I think they just came up with a fixture that transfers heat away so you don't burn yourself on the metal housing. Does the bulb actually burn cooler, idk, maybe. I'm not qualified to answer that question
Grow houses use to have ducted pendants...they would blow air through them and vent the hot air out of the building during the summer and take them off and heat the building during the winter...
 

Cichlid Dad

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Check out these beauties... For anybody who thinks that ATI makes good T5 bulbs, the UVL Super and White Actinic T5 have colors that will blow your mind.

I need to organize my stuff and get it into some hands of people who can use it. Of course I will hoard anything that I might use.
If you have 48 inch t5 Bulbs you don't want I'll take m off your hands LOL!
 

Nonya

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Lol. Like a "woman", that's exactly what I was thinking when I wrote it, thinking you were a guy. Nothing to see here people, just a couple guys being jerks. Either way, leds suck!
So much for a discussion of the imminent demise of MH. It really is a "keep off my lawn" philosophy, isn't it?

Here are your cheap Aliexpress halides. Pretty soon even China will stop making them.

As far as M40 ballasts, there's no shortage of magnetic ballasts. They're just multi-tap transformers with a capacitor. Any time somebody replaces their old school halide or sodium vapor lights with power saving LEDs, they throw out the old built-in ballasts. Here's an example on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3033190620...wZrGa0abhhObVNiYpd2wHANw==|tkp:Bk9SR47bur2DYw
 

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