Change in drain plumbing ?'s

[reefknight]

I have a drain issue that I have been working on correcting since the system was set up. I have always had micro bubbles in my sump and display. I have tried running socks, filter blocks, checking for air gaps in plumbing, etc. A good friend and LFS owner mentioned it was due to the sump bubble trap being set improperly. From left to right my sump runs....drains into skimmer area>over>under>over....open area with return area. He had be add another under baffle before the return area. All bubble traps are 1" spacing from each other and bottom. Since doing so the micro bubbles are worse than ever before. Water turbulence coming from my drains has always been high. I have a ton of water dropping from dual 1" drains. I have attempted using reverse durso's to correct this problem, I have tried adding different elbows and pieces to direct and diffuse the water to attempt to slow it down to no avail.

So today I began thinking if I were to take both of the 1" drains once they become parallel with my sump, add 1" - 2" bushings, a 2" wye bringing both drains together, then bringing a single 2" drain to the sump and over the back edge. This should reduce the flow, hence reducing the amount of splashing going into the sump, reducing the amount of micro bubbles. Right??

I know my skimmer is not releasing the bubbles, I've checked numerous times. I have checked and rechecked the "usual suspects" so many times its ridiculous, in the almost 5yrs that this has been in operation. The only other thing that I have not tried is reducing the diameter of the durso standpipes. They're 1.25" and reduce at the bulkhead to 1" and is plumbed in 1" the rest of the way.

Any ideas at this point are gladly welcomed!

TIA

 

[snipertwobe]

i don't think your traps are as much of a problem as the amount of flow threw the sump, more turn over = faster flow. turns into microbubbles. a picture would help as well, along with being where does your skimmer re-enter the sump. i have a tee on mine that the air gap or the tee section is at water level.when the water hits the surface of the sump most of the bubbles are broken there rest are filtered out with the baffles. if you want it quieter always enter the water at an angle. water will run along the side of the pipe instead of around and drop.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Look HERE.

 

[reefknight]

i don't think your traps are as much of a problem as the amount of flow threw the sump, more turn over = faster flow. turns into microbubbles. a picture would help as well, along with being where does your skimmer re-enter the sump. i have a tee on mine that the air gap or the tee section is at water level.when the water hits the surface of the sump most of the bubbles are broken there rest are filtered out with the baffles. if you want it quieter always enter the water at an angle. water will run along the side of the pipe instead of around and drop.

I have it to where it is pretty quiet, you really can't hear anything coming from the drains. It's just those dang bubbles that are rushing down. I know a photo would really help at this point, I'll get a couple in the morning and post them to make things easier. I have tried cutting angles on the pipe outlets, I've attempted using 45 & 90 degree elbows in multiple configurations. Lol, the wife believes that I own half of Lowe's plumbing dept. My return pump is an ATB Flowstat 1500, which shouldn't be overpowered considering the plumbing and it powers a manifold that feeds two media reactors as well. Though before changing that plumbing it may be worth swapping out the Flowstar for my older Ehiem 1262. What could it hurt.

Look HERE.

I have attempted a lot of those ideas except the 3" pvc bubble tower. That looks definitely different but again it appears that I would need one single drain or build two towers, and I only have room for one in that chamber.

 

[reefknight]

As promised I took a few photos today. You can see the returns coming into the sump, bubbles at the top and bottom of the sump, the return plumbing as well as the valves for turning on/off drains and/or returns if needed. The split to media reactors and my valve missing the end in front is for water changes. Screw in a section of tubing, open the back door and turn in the return pump.

 

[reefknight]

Installed the Ehiem 1262 last night. Though it is slower flow you can still find micro bubbles entering the final chamber. From one of the drains there is no turbulent spillage. From the other it has been reduced but is still there.

These were taken after the pump change.

 

[snipertwobe]

i see your problem... you are running pressurized returns. you should always oversize your drains. i am willing to bet even money that if you were to increase your return lines to 1 1/2 you would lose alot of those micro bubbles. another option is going to a smooth flexible tubing sized larger to fit over the 1" pipe. giving room when exiting the tank for it to start the process (removing micro bubbles)also the more turns in fitting will create more bubbles. you could always run a micron filter sock that will eliminate a lot of bubbles but those need to get changed often. i am a licensed plumber feel free to ask any question . especially if i haven't explained this understandably. what makes sense to me may not may sense to others.

 

[GreatWhiteTang]

I run oversized after bulkhead at 1.5 inches.. Same problem still.. Constantly searching for a solution to these **** bubbles is terribly discouraging.. Never had this problem on larger tank.. Move it to smaller tank.. Bubbles everywhere

we are gonna need a bigger boat!

 

[snipertwobe]

GWT. post some pics. and give some specs on the setup.

 

[reefknight]

Ok, so I think I'll have time to revisit this issue this weekend. I reinstalled the ATB Flowstar as I was getting micro bubbles either way. If I were to take the horizontal sections of drain and increase to 1.5" all the way into the sump, do you believe this would reduce the turbulence causing the bubbles? You can see the two drain pipes that I am referring to in the first photo. They're probably about 24" long then go into the sump. With re plumbing them both drains would go over the back of the sump and the rear bulkhead of the sump would be capped. With the way that the bulkheads from the tank are plumbed there is no way I can increase the diameter there. Manufacturer has those jammed all together in the overflow box.

I will say that I am seeing a reduced number of bubbles now versus a couple of weeks ago. The reverse durso's are helping but are now beginning to spit water through the air hole in the top off the cap. :frusty:

 

[GreatWhiteTang]

The top end is a standard 1.25" durso standpipe to a 1 inch bulkhead.. After it goes to 1.25" ball valve then after the valve opens up to a 1.5 45 the rest of the way it is 1.5.. It drops about 4 inches at the T into 8 inch deep water and into a acrylic bubble. Box with 2 overflow walls like a staircase then through 3.. 1 inch baffles then exits the bottom of the bubble box into rest of sump.. Note.. I have tried turning off the entire sump to the dismay for 2 hrs.. Still bubbles.. With that said.. I have also shut off all other water movement devices and still bubbles.. I ran this same setup on a 125 for. 6 years.. No problem with same everything.. I just added in a ball valve on the return plumbing to. Tone down the pump.. I'm pushing about 550 ish.. Also attached is bubbles at night with light

we are gonna need a bigger boat!

 

[GreatWhiteTang]

Reef Knight.. A small ball of polyfil in the cap will pop bubbles so they don't squirt out.. Without restricting airflow!!!

we are gonna need a bigger boat!

 

[GreatWhiteTang]

Could it be as simple as. New pvc and not unlike a skimmer.. Needs to slime up and break in? I'm going on 2 months since the switch to the smaller. Tank.. But I have changed plumbing continuously since then to try and stop bubbles.. Or even calcium precipitation maybe from a change in alk/Cal balance?

we are gonna need a bigger boat!

 

[GreatWhiteTang]

My alk is 10.5.. Mag at 1360.. Calcium was so high last time I tested I used the entire 1ml(titration) so im not sure how high it actually is.. Haven't dosed any since that test

we are gonna need a bigger boat!