Alkalinity, calcium and magnesium out of balance

[Brad Coughlan]

Hi all,

My alkalinity is around 11.8dkH which I test for, however, I had never tested for calcium or magnesium until now, my LFS ran calcium and magnesium tests and the results were

Alk: 11.8dkH
Cal: 390ppm
Mag: 1095ppm

I recently changed to Red Sea blue bucket which mixes to about 8dkH at 1.026SG, but I cannot get the alkalinity down, it'll take a lot of water changes. But the low magnesium is what I am unsure on, since I do have Tropic Marin All For Reef (Which I am not dosing at the moment, I'm not dosing anything at all right now) but that would raise the Alk.

Would it make sense to buy a separate magnesium supplement, and let the alkalinity drop through water changes? The alkalinity will take a long time to drop through consumption since my corals just aren't consuming any.

Would it be safe to purchase some more stony corals to help with lowering the alkalinity, or would I need to ideally raise the mag for them? Essentially what I'm saying is that the parameters seem to be all over the place currently, what would be the most simple solution to this?
Thanks

 

[Cichlid Dad]

If this is the tank you have on your tank thread , and you still have those coral, you should be consuming all three. I would first learn how to stabilize parameters before adding any new coral. Do you have Coraline algae on any of your inverts? If so, when you can keep parameters stable enough to grow Coraline on your Rock and glass, then you know your on the right track.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

If this is the tank you have on your tank thread , and you still have those coral, you should be consuming all three. I would first learn how to stabilize parameters before adding any new coral. Do you have Coraline algae on any of your inverts? If so, when you can keep parameters stable enough to grow Coraline on your Rock and glass, then you know your on the right track.

Yeah it's the same as on the thread with same corals,
Coraline is growing on the side of the tank as well

Everything seems stable, but I always hear about 1095 mag being too low, does it actually matter or is it worth raising it?

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Yeah it's the same as on the thread with same corals,
Coraline is growing on the side of the tank as well

Everything seems stable, but I always hear about 1095 mag being too low, does it actually matter or is it worth raising it?

I'm touching the the third rail here, but In my opinion yes you need to raise it.

In my experience in my tank hammers and frogs like magnesium.

My parameters are

Cal 425-450
Alk I've lower from 10 to 9 dkh and only have a .5 dkh swing in a day
Magnesium 1425-1450.

This is my tank with my coral others will differ

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I'm touching the the third rail here, but In my opinion yes you need to raise it.

In my experience in my tank hammers and frogs like magnesium.

My parameters are

Cal 425-450
Alk I've lower from 10 to 9 dkh and only have a .5 dkh swing in a day
Magnesium 1425-1450.

This is my tank with my coral others will differ

Alright then thanks, I'll purchase a magnesium suplement,

It's weird how the mag got so low, but not the alkalinity, not sure why mag is being consumed the most
Once I've got the mag right and the alkalinity lowered + figured out daily alkalinity consumption I'll resume All For Reef dosing

 

[gbroadbridge]

Hi all,

My alkalinity is around 11.8dkH which I test for, however, I had never tested for calcium or magnesium until now, my LFS ran calcium and magnesium tests and the results were

Alk: 11.8dkH
Cal: 390ppm
Mag: 1095ppm

I recently changed to Red Sea blue bucket which mixes to about 8dkH at 1.026SG, but I cannot get the alkalinity down, it'll take a lot of water changes. But the low magnesium is what I am unsure on, since I do have Tropic Marin All For Reef (Which I am not dosing at the moment, I'm not dosing anything at all right now) but that would raise the Alk.

Would it make sense to buy a separate magnesium supplement, and let the alkalinity drop through water changes? The alkalinity will take a long time to drop through consumption since my corals just aren't consuming any.

Would it be safe to purchase some more stony corals to help with lowering the alkalinity, or would I need to ideally raise the mag for them? Essentially what I'm saying is that the parameters seem to be all over the place currently, what would be the most simple solution to this?
Thanks

Assuming that the LFS knows what they are doing and those numbers are ballpark accurate (that's a big call), I'd say yes you should increase the Calcium to around 430 and the Magnesium to around 1350.

Don't buy anything overpriced, food grade Calcium Chloride and Magnesium Chloride are all you need (Amazon is a good choice)

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Alright then thanks, I'll purchase a magnesium suplement,

It's weird how the mag got so low, but not the alkalinity, not sure why mag is being consumed the most
Once I've got the mag right and the alkalinity lowered + figured out daily alkalinity consumption I'll resume All For Reef dosing

This is the easiest and cheapest two part imho.

2-Part Pharma Calcium & Alkalinity Starter Package

Start Replenishing Calcium and Alkalinity in your Reef Tank! Keep your corals growing with the BRS 2-Part Calcium & Alkalinity Starter Package. The kit includes everything to make one gallon of calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium and to start daily dosing, it even includes mixing jugs, dispensing...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Here is the calculator

Aquarium and Reef Calculators - Bulk Reef Supply

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Outlaw Corals]

Yeah it's the same as on the thread with same corals,
Coraline is growing on the side of the tank as well

Everything seems stable, but I always hear about 1095 mag being too low, does it actually matter or is it worth raising it?

I keep my magnesium at 1500 and i didn’t keep on top of it for a while and when i realized i didn’t test it for a while it got down to 1100, so i started to dose and i dosed 40ml and tested it a day later and it tested 1100 again, i dosed another 40ml and 24 hours same thing, so then i dosed 70 ml and it went up a little bit, it seemed very strange but over the next 10 day’s of dosing i finally got it to 1500, i used over a a whole liter of magnesium to get it to 1500 that’s how fast the Coral’s were sucking that stuff up, so after that, I noticed, for like the next two weeks of my Coral’s were growing like crazy. I’ve never seen anything like it. Some torches were splitting two heads at a time.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I keep my magnesium at 1500 and i didn’t keep on top of it for a while and when i realized i didn’t test it for a while it got down to 1100, so i started to dose and i dosed 40ml and tested it a day later and it tested 1100 again, i dosed another 40ml and 24 hours same thing, so then i dosed 70 ml and it went up a little bit, it seemed very strange but over the next 10 day’s of dosing i finally got it to 1500, i used over a a whole liter of magnesium to get it to 1500 that’s how fast the Coral’s were sucking that stuff up, so after that, I noticed, for like the next two weeks of my Coral’s were growing like crazy. I’ve never seen anything like it. Some torches were splitting two heads at a time.

Yeah I seen a few people say that it takes a lot of mag to raise it

That growth rate you had after sounds great, I'd love to have that as my growth rate isn't incredible. It's my first reef tank so I am still learning, but it seems like a lot of people have lots of LPS sucess with elevated mag, and I do have mostly LPS so I'm going to buy a suplement and do that

Which magnesium suplement did you use?

Thanks

 

[Brad Coughlan]

This is the easiest and cheapest two part imho.

2-Part Pharma Calcium & Alkalinity Starter Package

Start Replenishing Calcium and Alkalinity in your Reef Tank! Keep your corals growing with the BRS 2-Part Calcium & Alkalinity Starter Package. The kit includes everything to make one gallon of calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium and to start daily dosing, it even includes mixing jugs, dispensing...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Here is the calculator

Aquarium and Reef Calculators - Bulk Reef Supply

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Assuming that the LFS knows what they are doing and those numbers are ballpark accurate (that's a big call), I'd say yes you should increase the Calcium to around 430 and the Magnesium to around 1350.

Don't buy anything overpriced, food grade Calcium Chloride and Magnesium Chloride are all you need (Amazon is a good choice)

Thanks for the help and info everyone

 

[crazyfishmom]

It’s strange that calcium and magnesium would get so low without a similar decline in alkalinity. How frequently are you doing water changes? I know you mentioned switching recently but which salt mix were you using before? As you try to raise magnesium and calcium try to go slowly. A 200 ppm correction, if done quickly, will likely stress your corals so going slowly and doing it over the course of several days or maybe even a few weeks is important. If it were my tank I would really consider doing it through water changes rather than by dosing or maybe through a combination of water changes with a bit of dosing rather than just going by dosing alone. At this point you do not know if there’s lots of trace element consumption going on as well so you may send your system further out of whack with strictly two part dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Alright then thanks, I'll purchase a magnesium suplement,

It's weird how the mag got so low, but not the alkalinity, not sure why mag is being consumed the most
Once I've got the mag right and the alkalinity lowered + figured out daily alkalinity consumption I'll resume All For Reef dosing

I do not recommend it. The magnesium issue is with low salinity or test error.
Time for RMM.

Just say NO to magnesium testing: RMM is born

OK, this thread has been many years in the making, and I'm posting it here since folks in the chem forum are probably already tired of all the threads relating to problematic magnesium testing. I'm going to propose a method, let's call it the Randy Magnesium Method, or RMM for short. All good...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Brad Coughlan]

It’s strange that calcium and magnesium would get so low without a similar decline in alkalinity. How frequently are you doing water changes? I know you mentioned switching recently but which salt mix were you using before? As you try to raise magnesium and calcium try to go slowly. A 200 ppm correction, if done quickly, will likely stress your corals so going slowly and doing it over the course of several days or maybe even a few weeks is important. If it were my tank I would really consider doing it through water changes rather than by dosing or maybe through a combination of water changes with a bit of dosing rather than just going by dosing alone. At this point you do not know if there’s lots of trace element consumption going on as well so you may send your system further out of whack with strictly two part dosing.

I was doing 15% water changes every week, but since I am now aware of the parameters, I have been doing a few for this past week

Current salt I am using is Red Sea blue bucket, before I used premixed saltwater from my LFS. I am not 100% certain on which salt they used but I am tempted to say Red Sea coral pro since my alkalinity was high

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I do not recommend it. The magnesium issue is with low salinity or test error.
Time for RMM.

Just say NO to magnesium testing: RMM is born

OK, this thread has been many years in the making, and I'm posting it here since folks in the chem forum are probably already tired of all the threads relating to problematic magnesium testing. I'm going to propose a method, let's call it the Randy Magnesium Method, or RMM for short. All good...

www.reef2reef.com

Interesting

I'll give your thread a read

 

[crazyfishmom]

I was doing 15% water changes every week, but since I am now aware of the parameters, I have been doing a few for this past week

Current salt I am using is Red Sea blue bucket, before I used premixed saltwater from my LFS. I am not 100% certain on which salt they used but I am tempted to say Red Sea coral pro since my alkalinity was high

Reef Crystals also mixes with really high salinity and relatively low calcium and magnesium. I honestly would just continue to do water changes with the Red Sea blue bucket mix and it’ll get to where you need it to go. There are lots of opinions on magnesium. Many avid LPS keepers swear that keeping it at or just above 1400 makes a giant difference. I would say that if your coral is not suffering or showing signs of decline that just continuing to do water changes until it stabilizes around where you want it to be would be sufficient. I have a trident so I monitor the big 3 continually and I definitely see calcium and alkalinity consumption in my system without any real decline in magnesium (I dose all for reef and have SPS and LPS for background). The chemists in the forums like Randy don’t believe magnesium is a limiting element based on how much there is in seawater and consumption rates. Conceptually I agree… in practice I try to maintain it at around 1400 or so because I would hate to find that it makes a big difference for some of the species im trying to keep so I just do. Doesn’t seem to hurt them to be at these levels at any rate. Just my two cents.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Reef Crystals also mixes with really high salinity and relatively low calcium and magnesium. I honestly would just continue to do water changes with the Red Sea blue bucket mix and it’ll get to where you need it to go. There are lots of opinions on magnesium. Many avid LPS keepers swear that keeping it at or just above 1400 makes a giant difference. I would say that if your coral is not suffering or showing signs of decline that just continuing to do water changes until it stabilizes around where you want it to be would be sufficient. I have a trident so I monitor the big 3 continually and I definitely see calcium and alkalinity consumption in my system without any real decline in magnesium (I dose all for reef and have SPS and LPS for background). The chemists in the forums like Randy don’t believe magnesium is a limiting element based on how much there is in seawater and consumption rates. Conceptually I agree… in practice I try to maintain it at around 1400 or so because I would hate to find that it makes a big difference for some of the species im trying to keep so I just do. Doesn’t seem to hurt them to be at these levels at any rate. Just my two cents.

Hi, thanks for the reply

I did just purchase a salifert mag test, and aquaforest mag suplement, before seeing Randy's post

Did a test anyway, and it read about 1300ppm, which is what my salt mix is... Strange, because my LFS gave 1100, perhaps its the more frequent water changes I've been doing

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Did a test anyway, and it read about 1300ppm, which is what my salt mix is... Strange, because my LFS gave 1100, perhaps its the more frequent water changes I've been doing

Or, it reflects the basic premise of RMM: mag measurement is more trouble than it is worth.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Hi, thanks for the reply

I did just purchase a salifert mag test, and aquaforest mag suplement, before seeing Randy's post

Did a test anyway, and it read about 1300ppm, which is what my salt mix is... Strange, because my LFS gave 1100, perhaps its the more frequent water changes I've been doing

I think the water changes along with general range of those kits likely led tot he differential. I don’t trust tests from my LFS because they use the API multi test automated tester which are suspect in my opinion. Glad that you’re back to where you want to be!

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Or, it reflects the basic premise of RMM: mag measurement is more trouble than it is worth.

Yeah, that does make sense

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I think the water changes along with general range of those kits likely led tot he differential. I don’t trust tests from my LFS because they use the API multi test automated tester which are suspect in my opinion. Glad that you’re back to where you want to be!

Thanks

If you mean the the API multi test as in the AquaSpin tester, that's the same as what mine used, it showed my tank had 0.1ppm ammonia despite it being a year old. I did recently lose a large turbo snail, which in a 20 gallon could add a lot of nutrients but I am unsure if that'll cause ammonia, since a year old tank with lots of rock and filtration should process that