Apex Salinity Probe not calibrating....

[Niterunner77]

Hi to all! I just recently purchased my new Apex and so far I absolutely love it! But, the only problem I am having is that I can’t get my salinity probe to calibrate. When I’m calibrating on step 4 it just times out and can’t seem to get the correct salinity range it needs. Is there any suggestions from everyone who has the Apex? It’s just becoming very agitating to say the least. Thanks to everyone in advance!

Brandon

 

[Reeferdood]

Hi to all! I just recently purchased my new Apex and so far I absolutely love it! But, the only problem I am having is that I can’t get my salinity probe to calibrate. When I’m calibrating on step 4 it just times out and can’t seem to get the correct salinity range it needs. Is there any suggestions from everyone who has the Apex? It’s just becoming very agitating to say the least. Thanks to everyone in advance!

Brandon

I took this from the Neptune forums:
The "best" way to do it is actually to adjust your tank temperature to 77 degrees or use a separate vessel heated to 77 degrees with the temp probe placed in it. Float the packet in that water for minimum 15 minutes (30 better) and calibrate there with temp compensation enabled. This is kinda a PITA since it requires you to change a bunch of code and can tick of livestock or makes your heaters and chillers act wrong if you use a separate vessel. so the next best thing (and the way most do it) is to float the calibration packet in your sump for 30 minutes and calibrate in sump if possible (you would need a clip) and out of sump if not with temp compensation enabled.

 

[doughboy]

this, nobody talks about, and one discovers it after buying apex. if you google it, you will get tons of hits for this issue.
search youtube. there is one technique for calibrating it properly (not the brs one).
you also need to place probe where it will never catch any bubbles, including micro bubbles.
even if you are able to calibrate it properly, electrical interference can still cause it to give unstable readings.
but once you find the placement and wire routing that gets stable reading, avoid or minimize any changes afterwards.

 

[Niterunner77]

I took this from the Neptune forums:
The "best" way to do it is actually to adjust your tank temperature to 77 degrees or use a separate vessel heated to 77 degrees with the temp probe placed in it. Float the packet in that water for minimum 15 minutes (30 better) and calibrate there with temp compensation enabled. This is kinda a PITA since it requires you to change a bunch of code and can **** of livestock or makes your heaters and chillers act wrong if you use a separate vessel. so the next best thing (and the way most do it) is to float the calibration packet in your sump for 30 minutes and calibrate in sump if possible (you would need a clip) and out of sump if not with temp compensation enabled.

Thank you for the reply! This is the exact method I used and still no luck. I read this a day or two ago...

 

[redpine42]

Bubbles. It has two holes in the side for air to escape. If you don't shake out the bubbles while dipped in the test solution, you'll never get it to calibrate right. Cut off a corner. Put in the packet with the probe and solution in one corner and shake. Then run the calibration before taking it out. You also need to make sure the bubbles are out when you put it in the sump. I shook mine in the sump for awhile.

 

[ScooterV]

I don't even use the solution. Even if fully calibrated I'd never fully trust it anyway. Since I use it only to see any new, unusual, or rapid changes I started just verifying with my refractometer it was where I want it and then calibrate it right where it sits. I keep mine in a low flow area in my fuge since the skimmer area I had bubbles messing with it all the time.

True, its likely not 100% spot on for the value it reads, but is spot on for where I want it and can set alarms from there. Nothing is directly controlled by it either. Obviously this wouldn't work for anyone expecting the probe to give a 100% accurate numerical value, but is cheap, fast, and simple if only wanting to see the baseline or unexpected changes.

 

[ChadmRoman]

Would running this probes wire along with temp, orp, and ph cause interference? What bout the power for a tunze ato?

I floated the calibration solution for an hour, allowed the probe to dry for 24 hours, calibrated the probe in the solution placed in the aquarium water at 77, and removed bubbles but still off by 3ppt’s.

 

[n2585722]

Would running this probes wire along with temp, orp, and ph cause interference? What bout the power for a tunze ato?

I floated the calibration solution for an hour, allowed the probe to dry for 24 hours, calibrated the probe in the solution placed in the aquarium water at 77, and removed bubbles but still off by 3ppt’s.

Try placing some tank water in a cup and place the probe in there. If you get the reading good there you could have stray voltage in your tank. Also are you sure what you are comparing it to is correct?

The tunze power cable can possibly cause inteferrence. I would route sensor cables and power cables seperate form one another. The pH and ORP cables are unlikely to cause this as they are very low current. Current in a wire with a AC voltage causes a magnetic field. This field can induce voltages in a wire running in parallel at close proximity to the wire with the current flow. This can interfere with any of the probes. The salinity probe is usually the first to exhibit this issue. Hope this helps explain what can happen.

 

[dimidragos]

I have same issue... i don't understand why apex sell this if so hard to use and unstable....

 

[n2585722]

I have same issue... i don't understand why apex sell this if so hard to use and unstable....

What are you considering unstabe. Do you have a graph?

 

[ChadmRoman]

Try placing some tank water in a cup and place the probe in there. If you get the reading good there you could have stray voltage in your tank. Also are you sure what you are comparing it to is correct?

The tunze power cable can possibly cause inteferrence. I would route sensor cables and power cables seperate form one another. The pH and ORP cables are unlikely to cause this as they are very low current. Current in a wire with a AC voltage causes a magnetic field. This field can induce voltages in a wire running in parallel at close proximity to the wire with the current flow. This can interfere with any of the probes. The salinity probe is usually the first to exhibit this issue. Hope this helps explain what can happen.

I used zombies instructions in the following link to calibrate. Once I did this, the probe calibrated to 35ppt.
https://forum.neptunesystems.com/showthread.php?24176-Help-with-Salinity-Probe&p=151154

 

[n2585722]

Good, you got it working.

 

[dimidragos]

What are you considering unstabe. Do you have a graph?

I consider unstable because it's so easy to be affected buy other wires and so hard to calibrate. I succeed yesterday to calibrate after four days of attempts and now show my 49-50. I think it's affected by other factors, not calibration now, and i really cant isolate this wire from some other cables...i beleive i will give up

 

[SPR1968]

This is what I do when calibrating and it works every time. I do it every 3-4 months when the probe goes crazy!

With my trusty Red Sea refractometer, that I’ve used since I started, I wait until the tank salinity is at 35ppm.

I then follow all of steps on ‘manual’ calibration but when it gets to the stage of putting the probe in the calibration solution, it goes into its bracket in the tank water, and then leave it for a few minutes and then finish the calibration. And then it stays in line with my refractometer.

This works every time, as I just couldn’t get an accurate reading using the solution.

 

[n2585722]

The key is to get the bubbles of air out when you calibrate the probe. Make sure the probe is at an angle with the hole in the side of the probe on the high side. Then tap the probe with your finger to release the air inside the probe. Note the probe can be damaged if you hit it on the side of the sump or tank or if it is dropped. So I am not talking about banging on it just a few taps with you finger to try and disloge any air so it will escape out of the hole in the side of the probe. If there is air in the probe during calibration you will get a high reading like you have once the air works out of the probe when it is back in the tank. It also needs to be mounted at an angle with the hole in the side of the probe on the high side so any air that accumulates can get out. Don't give up just yet. If air during calibration is not the issue then we can try and isolate it from the tank as a test using a glass or cup of tank water to electrically isolate it from the tank and see if the reading differs from the reading with it in the tank.

Air bubbles is an issue that all the salinity probes for all the controllers have. It is not just the Apex. I would not try and control anything using this port since there is no way to know if a low reading is just air or a critter or a real issue. That would be up to you after you investigate to determine if your reading gets too low or too high. You can use the alarms to alert you that the value is out of bounds just don't set the alarm values to close. Otherwise air bubbles and small critters will be constantly causing alarms for this.

 

[pickupman66]

One solution I found to the air bubble issue is to get a small maxijet and some tubing and a shark bite type "t" that the probe fits into. This water flowing keeps air down.

 

[Williamson’s Reef]

I bought a digital refactor and learned my probe was way off. Turns out my $10 swing arm meter was right. My Neptune probe would change readings daily. After adding more salt ...then fresh water back and forth on a new tank for 3 or 4 days. I ordered more calibration fluid and tried multiple times/days to recalibrate it. Only to knock it off my stand and break it. I’m not buying another one until there reliable. This is my first Apex system. I love the system but the salinity probe needs a upgrade.

 

[n2585722]

I bought a digital refactor and learned my probe was way off. Turns out my $10 swing arm meter was right. My Neptune probe would change readings daily. After adding more salt ...then fresh water back and forth on a new tank for 3 or 4 days. I ordered more calibration fluid and tried multiple times/days to recalibrate it. Only to knock it off my stand and break it. I’m not buying another one until there reliable. This is my first Apex system. I love the system but the salinity probe needs a upgrade.

Have you contacted Neptune about your issue?

 

[Williamson’s Reef]

Have you contacted Neptune about your issue?

I had planned on it until I broke it. I disconnected it to let it dry 24 hours. It still wouldn’t calibrate. I guess it couldn’t hurt. But at this point it’s my fault. Although you know i kept telling myself it’s theres for being such a PITA LOL.

 

[n2585722]

I had planned on it until I broke it. I disconnected it to let it dry 24 hours. It still wouldn’t calibrate. I guess it couldn’t hurt. But at this point it’s my fault. Although you know i kept telling myself it’s theres for being such a PITA LOL.

I think there is a glass sleeve inside the probe that probably broke. All the salinity electrodes consist of two platinum electrodes a specific distance apart from each other. The current flow between these two electrodes is what is measured to get the conductivity of the water. Basically the resistance of the water. The more salts and stuff the more conductive it is. Air bubbles accumulating on or between the electrodes, critters or other substances getting between the electrodes will affect the readings. Also any stray voltages in the water will also affect this reading. These issues will always be an issue with a conductivity probe. Changing where it is placed in the system may be all that is needed to get more consistent readings. That being said I would not use it to control anything. You never know when a air bubble will accumulate or some small critter will decide to hide up in the probe causing a reading shift.