B-Ionic dosing is not balanced

[Steve Ruddy]

Two parts provide about 18-20 ppm calcium for each 1 meq/L (2.8 dKH) of alkalinity. Calcium carbonate is 20 ppm per 1 meq/L, but some magnesium gets into the structure in place of calcium, so the calcium demand is a tad lower. They also need to provide things like potassium, sulfate, chloride, bromide, etc. at a specific ratio, not because any of those are necessarily consumed, but to maintain them when there is no demand.

Well I can be a numb scull hence my misunderstanding of these values. I interpret this as if I run an Part 1 alkalinity level of 8.4 dKH Part 2 will only give me 54-60 ppm Ca?

I have made several tests on 1 cup of purified water for each part.

1- First test was based on RCC Ending points of 416 ppm Ca and 140 ppm Alk

• Additions - .21ml Part 1 / 1.625ml Part 2
• Results - 100 ppm Alk / 325 ppm Ca

2 - Next I used equal parts

• Additions - 2ml Part 1 & Part 2
  
• Results - ? over 600 ppm Alk / 375 ppm Ca

3 - Last test in attempt to bring my alkalinity into a usable range

• Additions - .5ml Part 1 /2ml Part 2
  
• Results - 260 ppm Alk / 375 ppm Ca

All three tests show Ca levels could not be maintained if additive was dosed in equal parts. Something must be happening to these levels after adding to saltwater? Whats interesting in the test results are that even at a ratio of 1/4 I wouldn't be able to hit my target zone. I am able to keep my levels in the zone with additions with a 1/3 ratio. I have used this product since it was introduced. I have never tried to test the batches , They are marked with a lot inspection number so I can only assume at this point my samples are good.

 

[GoVols]

lol,
You guys are way over my head at this point

Still tagging along though

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You are misunderstanding.

A balanced two part additive, like a CaCO3/CO2 reactor or limewater (kalkwasser), adds alkalinity and calcium in the ratio they are used, so can be used to keep everything about stable. That is, keep them where they already are, being held against the demand in the tank.

IF calcium starts low, you cannot use in equal parts these to raise it because alkalinity will go through the roof. That is not the intent of any of these additive methods.

IF calcium starts low, you must correct it first, then begin equal parts dosing.

 

[Steve Ruddy]

You are misunderstanding.

A balanced two part additive, like a CaCO3/CO2 reactor or limewater (kalkwasser), adds alkalinity and calcium in the ratio they are used, so can be used to keep everything about stable. That is, keep them where they already are, being held against the demand in the tank.

IF calcium starts low, you cannot use in equal parts these to raise it because alkalinity will go through the roof. That is not the intent of any of these additive methods.

IF calcium starts low, you must correct it first, then begin equal parts dosing.

Randy thanks for sticking with me. I'm definitely misunderstanding however I realize two part additives are designed to keep alkalinity and calcium at your starting point. My misunderstanding is why B-Ionic does not achieve this for me, and never has. I'm wondering if your recipe is better at preventing the calcium drop.

I have probably read every article you ever wrote about reef aquarium chemistry. That said my retention of data is not what it should be! I remember you saying how you use your two part mix , and that you use IO, and adjust it. I don't remember if you adjusted IO levels to match your target by adding your mix or something like calcium chloride and or baking soda. I typically don't do water changes but I have been doing 2.5 gallons intermittently on this newer tank. I'm thinking of picking a salt with an alkalinity to calcium ratio, which when added as is, will counter act the inevitable calcium drop when trying to maintain levels with equal B-Ionic additions. I visited several tanks I maintain yesterday and these results are the same with all tanks I maintain.

1. 50 gallon soft coral and clam aquarium

• age 16 years
• no water changes
• B-Ionic 40ml x 2 a week
• test results Alkalinity 8.5 dKH Ca 310 ppm
• added B-Ionic part 2 to bring Ca back up (I do this 4-5 times per year)

2. 70 gallon soft coral and clam aquarium

• age 10 years
• no water changes
• B-Ionic via DOS 31ml each daily
• test results alkalinity 8.5 dKH Ca 360 ppm
• added B-Ionic part 2 to bring Ca back up

3. My aquarium - 70 gallon

• age 2 years
• 2.5 gallon water changes every 3-6 weeks (IO Reef Crystals, recently switched to Brightwell and Red Sea Coral Pro)
• B-Ionic via DOS (initially I started at equal additions and adjusted as needed like tanks #1 and #2 above. Some where along the line I decided to adjust the DOS to keep my levels in my target zone continuously.

So you can see that for me B-Ionic fails to keep my Ca levels high enough. All the tanks I currently maintain are the same as tanks 1 and 2 above.

For my tank I'm currently keeping my levels stable continuously by dosing more part two than part one. My misunderstanding is why would this be anymore detrimental than periodically adjusting the levels. In the beginning it chugged along fine however at some point I had to turn up the part two and kept having to turn it up. Then the tank crashed. I'm still not sure if it's related. The test results always showed me in my target zone. FWIW none of my soft coral tanks will support sps or lps corals.

I am going to try the following method next:

• Do a 75% water change making sure Alkalinity and Ca are were I want.
• For ongoing WC use SW mix with highest calcium and lowest possible alkalinity
  
• Do not adjust SW mix hoping the higher Ca will conteract the natural drop in Ca when using B-Ionic
• Do enough water changes to keep my Ca in range
• Keep B-Ionic additions equal.

I hope this method will work. I'm fairly sure the ratio of Alkalinity to Ca will not remain exactly as I start. I'm also fairly sure it will end up settling with a higher dKH level and lower Ca level than I typically target. However I will let it settle to its own level. My hope is that this level will fall in the target area and will only require equally raising B-Ionic levels as the demand increases. I also hope that I won't have to do many or large WCs to keep the Ca level from dropping.

My sps tanks have always been larger than 100 gallons. This is the size were I use calcium reactors instead of two part additives. I have never tried to use a two part additive on an sps tank, but know others do, and would like to make it work for this tank!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My recipe would not be better at keeping a balance, unless you got a bad batch of B-ionic.

Here's are some reasons for the appearance of imbalanced dosing needs:

1. Dosing pumps are not adding the amount you think they are. Two pumps running the same time may not dispense the same volume.

2. Water changes are messing with the demand ratio if the new water does not match the tank. What salt mix? normal IO is deficient in calcium relative to alkalinity.

3. The demand may only appear to be imbalanced due to the fact that there is far more calcium in seawater than alkalinity. Consequently, under or over dosing of both equally always shows up in alk changes first.

4. Rising or falling nitrate levels can impact the demand ratio because nitrification depletes alkalinity and denitrification adds it.

 

[GoVols]

4. Rising or falling nitrate levels can impact the demand ratio because nitrification depletes alkalinity and denitrification adds it.

Randy, That's good to know

Regards, GoVols

 

[Steve Ruddy]

My recipe would not be better at keeping a balance, unless you got a bad batch of B-ionic.

Here's are some reasons for the appearance of imbalanced dosing needs:

1. Dosing pumps are not adding the amount you think they are. Two pumps running the same time may not dispense the same volume.

DOS on my personal tank in question are calibrated and checked which I consider more accurate than with the tanks I measure the doses.

2. Water changes are messing with the demand ratio if the new water does not match the tank. What salt mix? normal IO is deficient in calcium relative to alkalinity.

Could be, I was using IO RC. I'm now using Red Sea Coral Pro, Thinking of switching to Coralife. It's supposed to have 560 ppm Ca which is the highest I have seen. Also it's alkalinity is 11 dKH. This maybe the key to keeping the Ca in target without having to adjust the saltwater mix to match the tank.

3. The demand may only appear to be imbalanced due to the fact that there is far more calcium in seawater than alkalinity. Consequently, under or over dosing of both equally always shows up in alk changes first.

Not sure if I knew that, how long does it take for useful Ca readings to show up in those cases.

4. Rising or falling nitrate levels can impact the demand ratio because nitrification depletes alkalinity and denitrification adds it.

My Nitrate levels are always zero so it should be all relevant.


Starting with my large water change today I will start keeping an accurate log and graph. I will post it here in a few months. I did recognize today that my Seachem Reef Satus Calcium test results are 30ppm lower than the control sample.

 

[Steve Ruddy]

So we need to add a number 5 to Randy's list. Your test results are inaccurate.

Triton test results for Ca are 527mg/L this is way higher than I measure. I use Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium test. The reference is 403ppm but tested at 370ppm. However if I add 33ppm to my test result I am still 64ppm lower than Triton. Seachem is sending me new reagents. Maybe it's time to switch test kits. I just did a 50% water change using Red Sea Coral Pro with no adjustments and am dosing 20ml each of part 1 and 2. Current levels measure 8.74/438/1380 so iassume until I get an accurate test kit my Ca level is actually 536ppm.

 

[Myka]

So we need to add a number 5 to Randy's list. Your test results are inaccurate.

Triton test results for Ca are 527mg/L this is way higher than I measure. I use Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium test.

This is exactly why I never assume that this statement is true:

Test kits are good and doser is working properly.

I hope this solves your issues now! Fwiw, Salifert Calcium kit has tested within 10 ppm of Triton for me.

 

[Steve Ruddy]

Issue is solved! The imbalance was created by me from dosing B-Ionic in unequal parts. In reality there was no need as the Ca was not dropping. The Triton test for Ca was 527 ppm. So in my attempt to keep Ca up I ended up pushing all the other trace elements in part two up as well. This put Chromium, Zinc, and Lithium to very high and toxic levels. I did a major water change and am now dosing equal parts with no issues. I will be checking my kit against the reference sample from now on!!

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Glad we figured out what was going on. This happens with a lot of people experienced or not! Hope things recover quickly. Maybe try Randy's method so the elements can drop on their own. Then when trition tests normal levels again go back to bionic.