Before and after high phosphate pics

[Paulb89]

Hi all

I'm just curious to know if anyone has any pictures of their sps before and after high phosphate readings?

I've always wondered how dramatically different the same sps can be at lower normal levels compared to high readings, which have been high for months if not over a year.

My tank always reads above 0.15 and so I want to know how much of a difference I can possibly expect at 0.04 let's say.

Would love to see some comparison shots!

 

[Lavey29]

Don't have pics but my phosphate ranges .2 to .5 and I can grow SPS fine. However, a recent ICP showed no Zinc. As I started dosing Zinc weekly, I have noticed color improvements particularly a yellow acro that is bright yellow now.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Hi all

I'm just curious to know if anyone has any pictures of their sps before and after high phosphate readings?

I've always wondered how dramatically different the same sps can be at lower normal levels compared to high readings, which have been high for months if not over a year.

My tank always reads above 0.15 and so I want to know how much of a difference I can possibly expect at 0.04 let's say.

Would love to see some comparison shots!

I have not been taking pictures but can definitely see the difference. I had my phosphates sit at between 0.08-.2 for months and had gorgeous colors and then they spiked and stayed high at between 0.6-0.8 for about 5 weeks and several SPS browned. Now that my levels are back to 0.1-0.2 I am seeing colors start emerging again and the brown is disappearing. Pretty stark difference in my eyes. It also happened fairly quickly in about 2 weeks I am able to see colors again where brown was all I could see for a while.

 

[Kzang]

I have not been taking pictures but can definitely see the difference. I had my phosphates sit at between 0.08-.2 for months and had gorgeous colors and then they spiked and stayed high at between 0.6-0.8 for about 5 weeks and several SPS browned. Now that my levels are back to 0.1-0.2 I am seeing colors start emerging again and the brown is disappearing. Pretty stark difference in my eyes. It also happened fairly quickly in about 2 weeks I am able to see colors again where brown was all I could see for a while.

Are you sure it’s phosphate related? Seems all the coral farmers and everybody I read seem to say better colors at higher nutrient levels

 

[Paulb89]

Are you sure it’s phosphate related? Seems all the coral farmers and everybody I read seem to say better colors at higher nutrient levels

How about coral euphoria? He keeps his sps in the normal range and he has epic colouration.

0.8 phosphate is stupidly high and surely can't be recommended?

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

I live from .08-.15, sometimes up to .2 before a healthy water change. Rather have the stability relative to my system then chase numbers.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Are you sure it’s phosphate related? Seems all the coral farmers and everybody I read seem to say better colors at higher nutrient levels

Yup. They have higher nutrients but not that high. Not to mention that at least in my system, this is the only thing that changed and as soon as corrected the colors went back to normal. My nitrates are between 15-30 and that doesn’t seem to bother my corals. The LPS are quite happy with that.

 

[Lavey29]

A lot of coral vendors opt for 100:1 ratio for nitrates and phosphate. 10 nitrates for .1 phosphate. I try for this ratio but am currently more like 50:1.

 

[crazyfishmom]

I live from .08-.15, sometimes up to .2 before a healthy water change. Rather have the stability relative to my system then chase numbers.

Totally agreed! Stability is the name of the game.

 

[Pod_01]

So when I experimented with low PO4 (0.02- 0.04 levels), the SPS sticks looked :

Almost dead

Setosa was ok
But I lost quite few SPS corals

With elevated PO4 (0.15-0.5):

Just be careful with your journey to the 0.04 PO4 level.

Few more at elevated PO4:

Good luck,

 

[Lavey29]

So when I experimented with low PO4 (0.02- 0.04 levels), the SPS sticks looked :

Almost dead

Setosa was ok
But I lost quite few SPS corals

With elevated PO4 (0.15-0.5):

Just be careful with your journey to the 0.04 PO4 level.

Few more at elevated PO4:

Good luck,

Nice progression, what are you generally at now?

 

[crazyfishmom]

Seems like everyone’s tank responds a little differently to different levels. Biology is amazing .

My phosphate is at 0.05 in one of my tanks and the corals in that tank are absolutely thriving. Another tank (the one I was talking about in the previous posts) seems to do best between 0.1-0.25 or so.

I ignore numbers for the most part as long as the corals are happy. At the end of the day that’s what we all want.

 

[Lavey29]

Seems like everyone’s tank responds a little differently to different levels. Biology is amazing .

My phosphate is at 0.05 in one of my tanks and the corals in that tank are absolutely thriving. Another tank (the one I was talking about in the previous posts) seems to do best between 0.1-0.25 or so.

I ignore numbers for the most part as long as the corals are happy. At the end of the day that’s what we all want.

Very true each tank is unique.

 

[Pod_01]

Seems like everyone’s tank responds a little differently to different levels.

Very true, but it is important to try to understand why as well.

For example when I had those low PO4 numbers, they truly were low. I had few fish, not much feeding, GFO was used, algae didn’t grow. I was like wow this reefing is easy but corals didn’t do well.

Some systems have low PO4 but they have lot of fish etc… so there is constant supply of P although the residual PO4 can be low. Also calcium reactors provide constant supply of P when proper coral rubble is used.
Yes each system is unique.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Very true, but it is important to try to understand why as well.

For example when I had those low PO4 numbers, they truly were low. I had few fish, not much feeding, GFO was used, algae didn’t grow. I was like wow this reefing is easy but corals didn’t do well.

Some systems have low PO4 but they have lot of fish etc… so there is constant supply of P although the residual PO4 can be low. Also calcium reactors provide constant supply of P when proper coral rubble is used.
Yes each system is unique.

Excellent points. Algae growth is a great indicator of health, whether good or bad!

 

[Pod_01]

Nice progression, what are you generally at now?

Here is my latest results from ICP lab:

Total PO4 is around 0.17, the PO4 we can measure is at 0.08.
More fish and I do feed more.

In general the measurable PO4 is around the 0.1-0.2 range. So it is starting to trend down.

 

[Lavey29]

Here is my latest results from ICP lab:

Total PO4 is around 0.17, the PO4 we can measure is at 0.08.
More fish and I do feed more.

In general the measurable PO4 is around the 0.1-0.2 range. So it is starting to trend down.

That's a good number.

 

[Paulb89]

So if so many people are having success with sps at higher nutrient levels, then why is it that a low phosphate reading is recommended and that standard across the board?

Yeah it maybe natural salt water levels but surely if its not optimal then why should you maintain it at 0.04 to 0.08 for example?

 

[blecki]

So if so many people are having success with sps at higher nutrient levels, then why is it that a low phosphate reading is recommended and that standard across the board?

Because phosphate isn't the only factor affecting the coral. Those tanks struggling when phosphate is 'correct' might have something else wrong; those tanks thriving where phosphate is 'high' might have everything else right. Further, the ocean is far less uniform than people assume. The values measured in 'natural sea water' taken from a beach in Florida do not necessarily reflect the conditions on the coral's native reef or the 'perfect' conditions for that species, any more than oxygen readings taken on top of Mt. Everest represent 'perfect' conditions for humans despite being 'natural air'.

 

[crazyfishmom]

So if so many people are having success with sps at higher nutrient levels, then why is it that a low phosphate reading is recommended and that standard across the board?

Yeah it maybe natural salt water levels but surely if its not optimal then why should you maintain it at 0.04 to 0.08 for example?

In my humble opinion, biological systems are much more complex than the sum of their parts which include phosphate and nitrate readouts not to mention that our ability to measure these numbers with any degree of accuracy doesn’t span decades but years.

Yes, we are trying to mimic levels found in saltwater, yes we want to avoid toxicity and fueling if algal growth, yes to all the good and no to all the bad. That said, much like in human beings where the gut microbiome and virome impact everything from skin health to symptoms of depression our tanks behave in a very similar manner and what works in tank A will not in tank B. Conventional wisdom is conventional wisdom because these values work for a good portion of the people who initially tested their tanks with some success but if you look at threads asking for general parameters and where people keep them and find success at you’ll find that while 0.05-0.2 show up a bit more than other values it is very much a bell curve in distribution. More mature tanks or tanks with live rock from the ocean can get away with quite a bit more than newer tanks etc etc etc.