Best Way To Refill ATO Top Off Storage Container?

[Rjramos]

?

Why don't you just feed the ro directly to your ato where your Kalk is at? Use your float for the ato/kalk tank. Or am I missing something?


I manually refill my ato/kalk tank as needed and that is then fed into my sump by a float switch (autotopoff dot com).

Manually filling anything is what me and BODI are trying to avoid. Plus many people don't have the space for a 33 gal brute much less have it sit in there living room, or their wife's jacuzzi, lol! It can be done properly but requires as BODI mentioned a dosing pump and timer. A float valve dripping kalkwasser? That is a sure way to see it fail with all the precipitation!

 

[DavidinGA]

Manually filling anything is what me and BODI are trying to avoid. Plus many people don't have the space for a 33 gal brute much less have it sit in there living room, or their wife's jacuzzi, lol! It can be done properly but requires as BODI mentioned a dosing pump and timer. A float valve dripping kalkwasser? That is a sure way to see it fail with all the precipitation!

Ya I guess I took for granted that people had room for a big ato container.

I have run Kalk in my ato for 1.5 years now with zero issues. I use a half rate of Kalk in my ato (1 tsp per gallon). My tank usually loses about 2gal a day due to evaporation. So I'm dosing 2gal a day of half rate Kalk.

My total tank volume is about 240gal fwiw.

 

[BODI]

I am preparing to upgrade my current methods of manually dosing 2-part by hand daily to running Apex controller and Geo Ca/Rx which is another logical (and prohibitively costly) step towards automation... its the 'topping off" of the auto-top-off that has me perplexed lol simple a task as it may sound.

 

[Rjramos]

I manage the tank well with 2part additions and the alk and calcium are kept where I want them. It takes me seconds every morning before going to work so I don't mind. Not always the case if you're away from home though. I would like to automate dripping kalkwasser with top off water to maintain levels up and other associated benefits of kalk. Also to reduce more expensive 2 part usage. But this has to be fail proof.

 

[BODI]

You can automate Kalk drip using a quality peristaltic pump and a quality ph controller, but there will always be more risk involved over manually dosing by hand.

 

[Rjramos]

Now,A Calcium reactor is something I've considered for a long time. It's in closed loop with the entire system so it's isolated from top off. Then you can feed straight RO directly to the sump with a float valve as I've been doing.

 

[BODI]

Yes, having a Ca/Rx still does not solve the "keeping the top-off topped-off" issue though lol

 

[Rjramos]

Yes, having a Ca/Rx still does not solve the "keeping the top-off topped-off" issue though lol

Why not? You just do what I'm doing now. RO line directly to the sump with a float valve.

 

[Kyuss414]

I put a tee on my RO/DI output, then put a ball valve on each of the lines coming out of the tee. One goes to my brute container for mixing up fresh SW, and the other goes to a 35g hex tank that I use for top-off. At the end of each of those is a mechanical float valve so I don't have to babysit it (don't forget a auto shut-off valve on the RO/DI if you go this route.) I usually run the RO/DI overnight to whichever container I need filled and shut it off the next morning once it's done. With the float-valve in the 35g hex it fills to about 28 gallons or so, so I only have to refill it about every 3 weeks.

With having a larger ATO reservoir, as you said there's the potential for it to overfill should/when something goes wrong with the ATO system. So I use dual electric float switches (one being used only as a back-up in case the first fails) along with a timer set-up only to allow the peristaltic ATO pump to run slightly longer than ever needed for top-off throughout the year. This way two float valves and a timer would all have to fail in the "on" position at the for the ATO to overfill.

Pardon the mess lol, but here's a pic

 

[Kyuss414]

Why not? You just do what I'm doing now. RO line directly to the sump with a float valve.

The problem with running the RO/DI directly to the sump for top-off IMO, is you're constantly short cycling it and constantly getting a lot of TDS creep, which depletes the DI resin quicker. In my pic above you can see the loop hanging down between the RO part and the DI part and can somewhat make out another tee & ball valves. I shut the valve going to the DI and open the other one that runs to a bucket so I can run just the RO for a couple minutes. When I first turn it on the TDS jumps up to 80 or so instantly and then drops back down to 2 or 3 in a minute or two - I don't run it through the DI and into my reservoir until then.

 

[Rjramos]

The problem with running the RO/DI directly to the sump for top-off IMO, is you're constantly short cycling it and constantly getting a lot of TDS creep, which depletes the DI resin quicker. In my pic above you can see the loop hanging down between the RO part and the DI part and can somewhat make out another tee & ball valves. I shut the valve going to the DI and open the other one that runs to a bucket so I can run just the RO for a couple minutes. When I first turn it on the TDS jumps up to 80 or so instantly and then drops back down to 2 or 3 in a minute or two - I don't run it through the DI and into my reservoir until then.

Interesting to know Kyuss. I have never checked the output of my RO/DI for TDS. Does the high TDS come from the RO side into the DI resin cartridge or does it build up within the DI cartridge itself? I will say that my RO/DI unit comes with 2 outputs after the membrane, one goes directly to the 3 gal. storage tank which feeds the ice maker and water at the refrigerator, and the other goes to the DI cartridge. So water is always moving somewhere throughout the day. I have no idea whether I'm putting out TDS into my sump but everything in the tank does great, and I don't have nuisance algae problems.

 

[ecam]

Thanks for the photo : )

I used to have mine plumbed in the laundry room...
Now I have mine in my wifes Jacuzzi tub in our master bathroom to feed the new tank which is in our bedroom! Stop laughing Haha

LOl. How are u still alive?

 

[Damon]

My old system was completely automated with kalk, 2 part(well 3 part because it was brs) and ato. All were separate functions. You really do need a controller and stirrer(kalk) or a separate vessel fir storing your kalk mixture. It's pretty simple actually. You ruin your ro/di output to a say, 5 to 10 gallon aquarium (I used a 10 for my 110 dt) with a float valve. You need, on your ro system to have a tds meter or two to watch your di resin. Then, from that, you run a small powerhead to a kalk stirrer. I used a magnetic stir that came in for 30 seconds every hour(I wanted it to stir the kalk, but I didn't want it to be the super saturated and cloudy solution). I then set my controller to not stir and dose top off at the same time(a controller is almost needed for things of this nature) and if the stir came on, to wait(delay) the top off/feed to the stir for 5 minutes. Then, that feed is what I to my sump.

I set it so that the feed pump would only stay on a maximum of 30 seconds (that is one of the failsafe), then cycle for 5 minutes, and if it cycled, to send me a text and also a visual and sound alarm. There was no reason fir it to cycle or run more than 30 seconds unless something was wrong. Also, for your ato in the sump, be sure to run 3 float switches (high, low and emergency). I also ran, on the floor of my stand, and on one of the walls of the sump chamber, leak detector sensors that would send alarms also, and shut the water completely off (you could set it up to send water to a powerhead to drain water also if you wanted just depends how much emergency room you want, and mine was in the living room also).

Even with all this, the only thing visually my woman saw, was the 10 gallon tank, and even that, I painted black (because of the size of my sump and I couldn't fit the 10 gallon in my stand). But everything was done internally to the sump, 10 gallon tank, or downstairs at the ro unit. Given, I ran 40 feet of water line, but with a Booster pump, it was nothing at all..

 

[Kyuss414]

Interesting to know Kyuss. I have never checked the output of my RO/DI for TDS. Does the high TDS come from the RO side into the DI resin cartridge or does it build up within the DI cartridge itself? I will say that my RO/DI unit comes with 2 outputs after the membrane, one goes directly to the 3 gal. storage tank which feeds the ice maker and water at the refrigerator, and the other goes to the DI cartridge. So water is always moving somewhere throughout the day. I have no idea whether I'm putting out TDS into my sump but everything in the tank does great, and I don't have nuisance algae problems.

I'll leave it to Randy to actually explain it https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/re...tion-day-37-ro-de-ionization.html#post2048178

 

[SchnitzelReef]

2 float switches in my bin connected to my apex break out box. When the bottom switch is on it opens a solenoid that turns on my Ro/di. Then when the second/upper float switch is turned on, it shuts off the solenoid.