Borbonius Anthia, stopped eating

[JMLewis]

I've had a Borbonius Anthia for about 6 days now in my QT. Until today he was a voracious eater.

He was the last addition before I started copper treatment for him 2 clowns and a small regal. Over the past 4 days I've brought up my Cupramine to .50.

So today I've fed them rinsed mysis twice (smaller portions) and both times he comes out like he's gonna eat and then just ignores the food. All the other fish are eating without a problem.

One thing I also noticed is quite often he's making a yawning motion.

Anyone have advise?

 

[Supurderek]

Maybe flukes?

 

[JMLewis]

Maybe flukes?

I think your right, I just looked it up he's definitely making a yawning motion.

 

[JMLewis]

I see it says to treat with prazipro which I do have. I'm pretty sure I dosed it years ago with cupramine. But just to make sure is it safe to add it with full cupramine strength?

 

[Humblefish]

Maybe flukes?

^^Yawning is a symptom of gill flukes. Are you using copper to treat for ich/velvet or just doing it prophylactically? If the latter, you might want to remove the copper (which might be suppressing appetite anyway) and treat with Prazipro instead. After two rounds of Prazi (5-7 days apart), ramp the copper back up. If your anthias stops eating a second time while in copper you have encountered a copper sensitive fish and will need to utilize an alternative treatment.

 

[Humblefish]

But just to make sure is it safe to add it with full cupramine strength?

Technically yes, but I'm concerned about you dumping even more meds in when the anthias has stopped eating. That will just further suppress appetite. I would play it safe: Lower the copper (doesn't have to necessarily be 0), dose with Prazipro and then resume with copper treatment afterwards (assuming the anthias has resumed eating by then.)

 

[JMLewis]

^^Yawning is a symptom of gill flukes. Are you using copper to treat for ich/velvet or just doing it prophylactically? If the latter, you might want to remove the copper (which might be suppressing appetite anyway) and treat with Prazipro instead. After two rounds of Prazi (5-7 days apart), ramp the copper back up. If your anthias stops eating a second time while in copper you have encountered a copper sensitive fish and will need to utilize an alternative treatment.

The regal defiantly has ich and the clowns came from a tank that had fish with ich in it so not taking a chance. I definitely would prefer not to stop the copper treatment unless I absolutely have to.

I don't believe he's copper sensitive since the final dosage of cupramine was put in the day before yesterday in the morning, and yesterday he was eating like pig.

Would you advise against adding prazipro?

 

[JMLewis]

I'm a bit worried to bring the cupramine down and give the ich a chance to get out of control.

The regal is scratching on everything so I'm worried the theront (not sure my spelling is correct) phase will begin soon.

 

[JMLewis]

Just FYI hope I don't sound stubborn lol...I completely appreciate your advise @Humblefish. Just want to weigh my options.

 

[Humblefish]

@JMLewis If you have ich, then I guess you have to mix the two. Just be sure all fish are eating. If one of them stops for more than 2-3 days, then you may have a bigger problem on your hand than ich/flukes.

Another option would be to FW dip the anthias to check for flukes. But not everyone is comfortable doing this. See below for more info.


Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

 

[JMLewis]

@JMLewis If you have ich, then I guess you have to mix the two. Just be sure all fish are eating. If one of them stops for more than 2-3 days, then you may have a bigger problem on your hand than ich/flukes.

Another option would be to FW dip the anthias to check for flukes. But not everyone is comfortable doing this. See below for more info.


Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

I'm familiar with freshwater dipping, but yea it is always nerve racking.

If I do add the prazipro, do you think it would be wise to add it all at once or maybe half and half over a day? Or would that make it ineffective?

 

[Humblefish]

I'm familiar with freshwater dipping, but yea it is always nerve racking.

If I do add the prazipro, do you think it would be wise to add it all at once or maybe half and half over a day? Or would that make it ineffective?

I would add it all at once. The interaction issues with copper are as follows:

• The presence of copper makes praziquantel a little less effective; but IME still strong enough to eradicate flukes
• Increased appetite suppression
• Decreased available oxygen (point a powerhead towards the surface of the water to compensate)
• The possibility of a bacterial bloom (the water will turn cloudy) exists due to the Oxybispropanol found in Prazipro. A bacterial bloom can rob oxygen from the water (which is why increasing gas exchange is so important). Mixing Prazi with other meds can exacerbate this. If the water turns just slightly cloudy and the fish are still breathing normally, you are fine. But if it turns very cloudy and the fish are breathing hard, you need to get them out of there ASAP. Just make sure you always have enough clean SW to fill a 5 gallon bucket or something, until you can fix the problem in QT by doing a large WC to dilute the meds.

 

[JMLewis]

Well I decided to add the Prazi last night, all the fish in the tank were such good eaters I wasn't super worried about it suppressing their appetite to much.

So of course first thing I do this morning is check on em and they look good so I rinsed some mysis and threw it in there, and I'm extatic to report the Borbonius is back to his usual voracious eating again!

Thanks for all your help @Humblefish !!