Chalices - Receeding - Why? They have been doing so well for so Long

[ingtar_shinowa]

Phosphate seems pretty high, that would do it. What test kits?

 

[that Reef Guy]

Phosphate seems pretty high, that would do it. What test kits?

Here is the Thing a lot of my Corals (SPS, Chalices, Acans) were Fading.

I was told it was because I use GFO.

I stopped using GFO and they Very Next Day some of my Corals started to Color Up.

While using GFO my Phosphate was 0.06

Less than a Week Ago I stopped the GFO.

I then tested the Phosphate.

I went from 0.06 to 0.95 in less than a Week Once I stopped GFO.

If I start GFO again my Corals will Fade again.

So I am danged if I do and danged if I don't.

I am Lost.

What should I do?

 

[Aquanaut WA]

CLAMS AND POM XENIA LOVE PHO4. ALK should be 8-10dkh. My tank is 9dkh and growing chalice plump. Could you try phos pads occasionally? Or ck food additions too high in PHO4

 

[jt17]

What are the Pathogens that you speak of?

I have never heard of them before?

Do they only target Chalices (Like how Montipora Eating Nudibranch's only eat Montipora)?

Or do these Pathogens target any Coral that is Receeding or RTN/STN ing?

The pathogen would be the cause of the diseased tissue. I don't know if in fact there are pathogens causing recession or not but whatever it is that causes the recession gets smothered out by the glue.

 

[jt17]

Your nitrate/ phosphate ratio is out of ballance. Chalices don't mind some nutrients if they are in balance at the right levels. Nitrates 5-10 and phosphate .03-.09 is what I shoot for. The way I see it is the nutrients are what feeds the algae and algae like many other plants require a certain balance of nutrients. If one limiting nutrient is depleted (nitrate) then it limits their growth and they can not use the other nutrients like phosphate. Without some nitrate their algae becomes malnourished making them vulnerable to pathogens that they could normally fight off. An addition of aminos could help bring that ratio more in line except that phosphate is a bit to high to tweak it this way.
Also sudden swings like your phosphate rise could do this. As mentioned above several good size water changes over a couple days will help bring your parameters in balance but the way your phosphates shot up after you stopped the gfo makes me think there's either a lot of phosphate tied up in your sand and live rock or your water source is high phosphate. You might want to test your rodi water for phos. Until you can eliminate the source of phosphate you may be best off continuing with the gfo and if your corals become pale then dose aminos to get some nitrates. Just my .02

 

[dnov99]

Good advice here ^^^

That is a massive spike in po4 in such a short period of time. I would certainly find the source of it. Are you feeding extremely heavy? If not it's coming from your water supply or leaching from rock/sand. Unfortunately IME chalices are the most sensitive and delicate coral out there, constantly receding for no apparent reason. Good luck.

 

[ingtar_shinowa]

Another options is to use less gfo. This is a pain, and one of the reason I use Ecobak/Ecobak Plus bioplellets. Targeting a specific po4 level take alot of testing, but should be pretty basic once you get it locked in. Use like 1/4 of as much GFO as you did. .95 po4 can cause alot of stony corals to RTN.

 

[that Reef Guy]

CLAMS AND POM XENIA LOVE PHO4. ALK should be 8-10dkh. My tank is 9dkh and growing chalice plump. Could you try phos pads occasionally? Or ck food additions too high in PHO4

What are Phos Pads?

 

[that Reef Guy]

Your nitrate/ phosphate ratio is out of ballance. Chalices don't mind some nutrients if they are in balance at the right levels. Nitrates 5-10 and phosphate .03-.09 is what I shoot for. The way I see it is the nutrients are what feeds the algae and algae like many other plants require a certain balance of nutrients. If one limiting nutrient is depleted (nitrate) then it limits their growth and they can not use the other nutrients like phosphate. Without some nitrate their algae becomes malnourished making them vulnerable to pathogens that they could normally fight off. An addition of aminos could help bring that ratio more in line except that phosphate is a bit to high to tweak it this way.
Also sudden swings like your phosphate rise could do this. As mentioned above several good size water changes over a couple days will help bring your parameters in balance but the way your phosphates shot up after you stopped the gfo makes me think there's either a lot of phosphate tied up in your sand and live rock or your water source is high phosphate. You might want to test your rodi water for phos. Until you can eliminate the source of phosphate you may be best off continuing with the gfo and if your corals become pale then dose aminos to get some nitrates. Just my .02

These are all great points.

Couple Questions:

1. Doesn't the RO Water take out all the Phosphates?
2. I actually do Dose Amminio Acids (Acro Power) Twice a Week.
3. How do I raise Nitrates? I tried to Feed More but they are always at Zero?

 

[that Reef Guy]

Another options is to use less gfo. This is a pain, and one of the reason I use Ecobak/Ecobak Plus bioplellets. Targeting a specific po4 level take alot of testing, but should be pretty basic once you get it locked in. Use like 1/4 of as much GFO as you did. .95 po4 can cause alot of stony corals to RTN.

One reason (I only heard this from one person so I do not know if it is true or not) for the Fading and the Reason I stopped the GFO was that someone said GFO has to be in a Reactor.

He said if it is not in a Reactor then the GFO will get into the Aquarium and get into the Live Rock and Sand.

He claimed that is why my Corals are Fading.

But nobody backed him up (Nobody said he was wrong either) and I have never heard this before with all my research so I do not know if it is true or not?

What do you guys think?

Since I do not have a GFO Reactor I was using a Tetra "Hang on the Back Waterfall" Freshwater Filter.

I have been using these since my Freshwater Days and have always used them in Saltwater which I have been doing for 5 Years now with no Problems until now.

You buy a Box of 12 Filter Pads (The 55 Gallon Aquarium with the Chalices uses 2 of these Filter Pads).

The Box comes with 12 Pre-Made Silver Bags with Carbon in it.

You open up a Single Bag and add it to the Filter Sock and Seal it up and put it in the Filter.

This is where I added the GFO.

In addition to the Carbon I added 3 Teaspoons of Bulk Reef Supply "High Capacity" GFO to each Filter Sock for a Total of 6 Teaspoons for the Whole Aquarium.

I then threw out the Filter Pads each Week and Replaced them with New Filter Pads with New Carbon and New GFO.

I do this every Week.

Do you guys think this is my Problem?

Hopefully you are Familiar with this Type of Filter and Know What I am talking about.

Please Please let me know all your thoughts, concerns, ideas, to help correct this problem, etc.

I added a couple pictures to show what the filter looks like.

 

[that Reef Guy]

I was advised today by some Experts to go back to my Massive Water Changes and to Dip them in Chemi-Clean.

Hopefully that works for me.

 

[guzzlo]

I had problems with my chalices when my mag was at 1500. I keep it at 1400 now and no problems! Also kept my calcium at around 440 and dkh at 8 and po4 always under .08

 

[Lee_is_007]

The same thing happened to almost all of my chalices. They all had great color and had feeding tentacles out but they all started to recede and die. My parameters where always perfect. There were two things that I did change wise that probably did them in. One, I used about 2 times the amount of GFO to get rid of hair algae that I had. Two, I used Microb-lift bacteria to cut down on my nutrient levels (which i had zero nitrates). One of these two things I believe are what killed them. It was all of my LPS for the most part. My Space Invaders pectinia, and some favias too! I will never use GFO again. I have been trying a product called Phosphate RX and so far so good

 

[guzzlo]

FWIW I run 150g of phosban on my reef (150 gal total) through a brs reactor with a mj900 pump turned down about halfway and haven't seen any problems. mixed reef.

 

[3Twinklets]

Your nitrate/ phosphate ratio is out of ballance. Chalices don't mind some nutrients if they are in balance at the right levels. Nitrates 5-10 and phosphate .03-.09 is what I shoot for. The way I see it is the nutrients are what feeds the algae and algae like many other plants require a certain balance of nutrients. If one limiting nutrient is depleted (nitrate) then it limits their gro*** and they can not use the other nutrients like phosphate. Without some nitrate their algae becomes malnourished making them vulnerable to pathogens that they could normally fight off. An addition of aminos could help bring that ratio more in line except that phosphate is a bit to high to tweak it this way.
Also sudden swings like your phosphate rise could do this. As mentioned above several good size water changes over a couple days will help bring your parameters in balance but the way your phosphates shot up after you stopped the gfo makes me think there's either a lot of phosphate tied up in your sand and live rock or your water source is high phosphate. You might want to test your rodi water for phos. Until you can eliminate the source of phosphate you may be best off continuing with the gfo and if your corals become pale then dose aminos to get some nitrates. Just my .02

Very good advice!

 

[jt17]

These are all great points.

Couple Questions:

1. Doesn't the RO Water take out all the Phosphates?

It should. I recently discovered my ro cartridge had expired way early. We have high chlorine in our water and if I don't stay on top of changing the carbon block then the chlorine can degrade the ro filter which I think is what happened. It takes a day for me to fill my rodi tank and the next morning my di cartridge was completely exhausted and I had a rodi tank full of .04 phosphates. . To track down your source of phosphates you should start with testing your rodi water.

2. I actually do Dose Amminio Acids (Acro Power) Twice a Week.
That's the stuff. I've heard only good things about it.

3. How do I raise Nitrates? I tried to Feed More but they are always at Zero?

First things first. Lets get the phosphate levels down. If you try to change both at the same time you won't know which effort resolved your problem. Once your phosphates are lower and in balance with what nitrate is there, I think you'll see nitrate rise. They say reefs are low nutrient environments which only means the water flowing around them has low nutrients the life on the reef just aggressively competes for these nutrients. So nutrients are there and in the right balance are consumed by the corals and bacteria. Bacteria consumes most the nitrate and phosphates in our ranks reducing their presence in the water. If either nitrate or phosphate is limited then that biological process will be limited by whichever one is in short supply. With your phosphate level so high it is not possible to safely add nitrate to tweak that ratio. Start with controlling phosphates. You don't need a reactor for gfo. Put it in a media bag, rinse well with rodi and put in a high flow area of your sump.