Chrysophytes?! Help me cure it?

[mcarroll]

Great thread....got these in spades, probably from another tank I took care of a few years ago that I shared some equipment with. (Not a normal practice....it was an emergency.)

"Golden diatoms" was the only clue I'd gotten to the ID of these baddies....but zero related info.

this is just my experience. corraline has a way of telling unwanted algae to go away.

that isnt to mean that you are immune, just that it seems harder to establish on those rock from my experience.

only reason i mention it is because you have some super clean rocks. i did the same way as you, and corraline still spread.

This was my thought as well....the baddies took over when the tank was being ignored for a long period and coincidentally specific gravity crept up to 1.030+ via two-part dosing.

Coraline had disappeared in the mean time....and I found out PO4 had accumulated to .20 per a Hanna phosphate meter. Nitrates have always been zero below zero due to no fish and minimal feeding. (I'm no longer in the camp of thinking this was a good nitrate strategy as it just seems to tilt the table toward cyano and away from green algae.)

The tank has stabilized in most aspects, but this algae is still calling it home....and it does have a tendency to choke out some corals if left to its own devices.....my Hydophora literally seems to attract it.

Margarita snails died within weeks of adding them to the tank, maybe due to eating this stuff, but I can't rule out a bad batch of snails.

I added a bunch of Ceriths later and only lost a couple of the smaller ones...the rest have been fine, but I can't tell if they're making any headway on the problem – imperceptible if they are.

I'm not a fan of hermit crabs because I like snails...so I don't plan to add any if I can help it.

I may have to find someone to send a sample to for ID.....getting a microscope here at home isn't happening.

Any suggestions?

 

[Russ265]

Great thread....got these in spades, probably from another tank I took care of a few years ago that I shared some equipment with. (Not a normal practice....it was an emergency.)

"Golden diatoms" was the only clue I'd gotten to the ID of these baddies....but zero related info.



This was my thought as well....the baddies took over when the tank was being ignored for a long period and coincidentally specific gravity crept up to 1.030+ via two-part dosing.

Coraline had disappeared in the mean time....and I found out PO4 had accumulated to .20 per a Hanna phosphate meter. Nitrates have always been zero below zero due to no fish and minimal feeding. (I'm no longer in the camp of thinking this was a good nitrate strategy as it just seems to tilt the table toward cyano and away from green algae.)

The tank has stabilized in most aspects, but this algae is still calling it home....and it does have a tendency to choke out some corals if left to its own devices.....my Hydophora literally seems to attract it.

Margarita snails died within weeks of adding them to the tank, maybe due to eating this stuff, but I can't rule out a bad batch of snails.

I added a bunch of Ceriths later and only lost a couple of the smaller ones...the rest have been fine, but I can't tell if they're making any headway on the problem – imperceptible if they are.

I'm not a fan of hermit crabs because I like snails...so I don't plan to add any if I can help it.

I may have to find someone to send a sample to for ID.....getting a microscope here at home isn't happening.

Any suggestions?

take a sample to your local college

 

[mcarroll]

In most towns that probably seems like a great suggestion.

For better and worse, I'm in the D.C. area....more colleges per square centimeter than you could shake a stick at.

Thanks to traffic, none are close by...I imagine I'd still probably mail them a sample vs trying to get there.

But first I'd have to make a list and figure out which ones to call first. Any idea where to start?

 

[mcarroll]

At that rate, I might be better off pursuing a microscope.....

 

[reeferfoxx]

Great thread....got these in spades, probably from another tank I took care of a few years ago that I shared some equipment with. (Not a normal practice....it was an emergency.)

"Golden diatoms" was the only clue I'd gotten to the ID of these baddies....but zero related info.



This was my thought as well....the baddies took over when the tank was being ignored for a long period and coincidentally specific gravity crept up to 1.030+ via two-part dosing.

Coraline had disappeared in the mean time....and I found out PO4 had accumulated to .20 per a Hanna phosphate meter. Nitrates have always been zero below zero due to no fish and minimal feeding. (I'm no longer in the camp of thinking this was a good nitrate strategy as it just seems to tilt the table toward cyano and away from green algae.)

The tank has stabilized in most aspects, but this algae is still calling it home....and it does have a tendency to choke out some corals if left to its own devices.....my Hydophora literally seems to attract it.

Margarita snails died within weeks of adding them to the tank, maybe due to eating this stuff, but I can't rule out a bad batch of snails.

I added a bunch of Ceriths later and only lost a couple of the smaller ones...the rest have been fine, but I can't tell if they're making any headway on the problem – imperceptible if they are.

I'm not a fan of hermit crabs because I like snails...so I don't plan to add any if I can help it.

I may have to find someone to send a sample to for ID.....getting a microscope here at home isn't happening.

Any suggestions?

I've had bad luck with cerith and turbos. Like you said, I couldn't rule out a bad batch of snails. I'm not a huge fan of crabs either. I have a blue legged hermit in my other tank that bothers the zoanthids every once in awhile. None the less I have two in this 30 gallon. I wanted to see how they did. See if they ate the stuff or what? So far, Astreas eat it. I don't lose them often either. In fact maybe 2 Astreas have died in the 8 months.

SG never did creep up. That said, the tank isn't at dosing stage yet. My Acan and frogspawn are growing and multiplying. Zoanthids seem to have taken a pause on growth.

Although PO4 was low, I can't rule out excess silica. The tank is new. Equipment, new. Rock was man mad.

You guys can hate me, but I added GFO last night. Last time I used GFO I only ran it for 28 hours. This time I'm running it for 36 hours.
I will be monitoring parameters closely. Also monitoring for polyp retention. If this is a silica algae, I want to remove the silicates.

GFO 15 hours in parameter tests.

SG: 1.026
pH: 8.0 (from 8.4)
Cal: 450
Alk: 7.9 (from 8.5)
PO4: 0.00
NO3: 1


Today I will be dosing Alkalinity to hopefully raise that number up to 8.3dkh
Also dosing 3ml of KNO3. It was due to be dosed anyway.

Observations so far are not showing any negative effects. In fact there are more snails on the rocks today, more so than ever observed.
Tomorrow I will be performing manual removal via siphon hose with a 10% water change.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Oh and per @brandon429 suggestion, I'll be adding UV tonight. If i'm going to work on the rocks tomorrow, I want to eliminate any other free floaters.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Oh and per @brandon429 suggestion, I'll be adding UV tonight. If i'm going to work on the rocks tomorrow, I want to eliminate any other free floaters.

on my big cleans i love my canister filter. lotsa floss.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I've had bad luck with cerith and turbos. Like you said, I couldn't rule out a bad batch of snails. I'm not a huge fan of crabs either. I have a blue legged hermit in my other tank that bothers the zoanthids every once in awhile. None the less I have two in this 30 gallon. I wanted to see how they did. See if they ate the stuff or what? So far, Astreas eat it. I don't lose them often either. In fact maybe 2 Astreas have died in the 8 months.

SG never did creep up. That said, the tank isn't at dosing stage yet. My Acan and frogspawn are growing and multiplying. Zoanthids seem to have taken a pause on growth.

Although PO4 was low, I can't rule out excess silica. The tank is new. Equipment, new. Rock was man mad.

You guys can hate me, but I added GFO last night. Last time I used GFO I only ran it for 28 hours. This time I'm running it for 36 hours.
I will be monitoring parameters closely. Also monitoring for polyp retention. If this is a silica algae, I want to remove the silicates.

GFO 15 hours in parameter tests.

SG: 1.026
pH: 8.0 (from 8.4)
Cal: 450
Alk: 7.9 (from 8.5)
PO4: 0.00
NO3: 1


Today I will be dosing Alkalinity to hopefully raise that number up to 8.3dkh
Also dosing 3ml of KNO3. It was due to be dosed anyway.

Observations so far are not showing any negative effects. In fact there are more snails on the rocks today, more so than ever observed.
Tomorrow I will be performing manual removal via siphon hose with a 10% water change.

Let me know what you guys think.

turbos eat A LOT. so not surprising in a smaller tank w competition. I lost my beloved Turbo "Flower" recently cus im a bad snail dad.

how much gfo?(no hating) I dont know that measuring it in hours will work well. Not Slow enough. With Po removal with gfo it does strip the water but takes time to strip the Po from the rock(ie rock to water to gfo)
Im wondering if silicates are the same.

 

[reeferfoxx]

turbos eat A LOT. so not surprising in a smaller tank w competition. I lost my beloved Turbo "Flower" recently cus im a bad snail dad.

how much gfo?(no hating) I dont know that measuring it in hours will work well. Not Slow enough. With Po removal with gfo it does strip the water but takes time to strip the Po from the rock(ie rock to water to gfo)
Im wondering if silicates are the same.

Normally, and I suggest this to others, is to start slow. In this case, I went with the directions of 1 gram per gallon. So I scaled out 30 grams per 30 gallons. That would be full amount for GFO. No more and no less. It's risky but I'm watching parameters. It will only be temporary as well.

I came across this article a few months back.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/2/chemistry
This person did more in depth testing with GFO with results. They showed that 17mg/l was eliminated within 21 hours of usage. Unfortunately I don't have a starting point. It would take nearly a week for a silicate test kit to arrive.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

LOL, your like the second person besides me who read the directions.

thanks for the article. I read it long ago but I like to reread.

I wouldnt worry about the test myself. What your attempting is a starvation method(gees your already on the verge of ULNS now). If you know your pulling out a key mineral AND nutrients plus manual removal of the target species. you should be fine.

Pretty risky strategy. And as we know, what we do now we wont see for days or weeks. I wonder what the overall three weeks from now result will be on the system as a whole. As soon as you do a wc youll be adding silicates and other possible trace element back in.

pretty neat.

 

[reeferfoxx]

LOL, your like the second person besides me who read the directions.

thanks for the article. I read it long ago but I like to reread.

I wouldnt worry about the test myself. What your attempting is a starvation method(gees your already on the verge of ULNS now). If you know your pulling out a key mineral AND nutrients plus manual removal of the target species. you should be fine.

Pretty risky strategy. And as we know, what we do now we wont see for days or weeks. I wonder what the overall three weeks from now result will be on the system as a whole. As soon as you do a wc youll be adding silicates and other possible trace element back in.

pretty neat.

Exactly, that is why I'm trying to limit water changes. My theory is the tank was inadvertently saturated with nutrients. This will be a kind of reset switch that will help pull all the nasty out. Although, it could take weeks for results, most algae can starve sooner and show results a little faster. We will see.

 

[mcarroll]

Somewhere in the thread it was stated that these guys don't care much about nutrients....they're here for the territory. They're probably very plugged into the nitrogen cycle, maybe even as a N-fixer or cohabitating with one vs being dependent on free dissolved nutrients.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Somewhere in the thread it was stated that these guys don't care much about nutrients....they're here for the territory. They're probably very plugged into the nitrogen cycle, maybe even as a N-fixer or cohabitating with one vs being dependent on free dissolved nutrients.

They don't care about nutrients, true. This is all speculation but if Chry. is the algae that forms on top of diatoms, what would keep diatoms in their place? Calothrix. Calothrix is the mixture of diatoms and cyano. Ultimately creating a turf type diatom algae that won't go away until nutrients are attacked. Would that be fair to say?

 

[mcarroll]

They don't care about nutrients, true. This is all speculation but if Chry. is the algae that forms on top of diatoms, what would keep diatoms in their place? Calothrix. Calothrix is the mixture of diatoms and cyano. Ultimately creating a turf type diatom algae that won't go away until nutrients are attacked. Would that be fair to say?

Seems reasonable to say from what little I know so far....turns out Chrysophytes is a catch-all term for abut 4.6 million species, so this is only garnering me search results about red-tides and such. :mad: More than I had to go on before, but "golden algae" gets a lot of the same results.

Here's one mostly interseting article...doesn't seem to be anything but a PDF available:
(I took that link from a PDF I was viewing (from a google search) after looking for the main page the link would be hosted from....but now that .PDF link goes to the main page where the article is hosted. Ooo-kee.)

"Release and bioavailability of C, N, P, Se, and Fe following viral lysis of a marine chrysophyte"
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...hrysophyte/links/54cd5fc10cf29ca810f811a0.pdf

This leads me back to one of my original theories that my neglect (including the fairly long-term specific gravity shift) put the whammy on the microbial food web....I'm betting viruses must be somewhat lacking, as well as other factors. I really want a new piece of live rock now.

 

[StrangeDejavu]

Great thread so far. I'm pretty sure i've been dealing with these for a while now, though I thought it was brown hair algae. This stuff has completely covered my top rock and will cover every inch of the glass 48 hours after cleaning it with the Magfloat. My experience has been almost identical to the OPs. While tank was still new-ish, I had a fish hide in a hole and die. Then while on vacation, a snail died. Since then, i've been working overtime on WCs and maintenance to try and get the tank back on track but nothing seems to work. I started running GFO and cut my feedings in half thinking it was hair algae but no visible changes. What I have noticed is my only remaining trochus snail (the result of a spawn while my tank was young, this guy grew up in my tank) is eating what he can. Tank is coming up on 6 months old. Here's a few pics:

You can see a patch of clean rock where the trochus is cleaning

Microscope view

 

[reeferfoxx]

Great thread so far. I'm pretty sure i've been dealing with these for a while now, though I thought it was brown hair algae. This stuff has completely covered my top rock and will cover every inch of the glass 48 hours after cleaning it with the Magfloat. My experience has been almost identical to the OPs. While tank was still new-ish, I had a fish hide in a hole and die. Then while on vacation, a snail died. Since then, i've been working overtime on WCs and maintenance to try and get the tank back on track but nothing seems to work. I started running GFO and cut my feedings in half thinking it was hair algae but no visible changes. What I have noticed is my only remaining trochus snail (the result of a spawn while my tank was young, this guy grew up in my tank) is eating what he can. Tank is coming up on 6 months old. Here's a few pics:

You can see a patch of clean rock where the trochus is cleaning

Microscope view

Seems like frequent water changes are adding to the problem. At least for me. It does help to know where your phosphates are and what to expect with GFO.

My initial plan was to run GFO for 38 hours. As well as hooking up a UV sterilizer. Evidently the UV sterilizer has a dead lamp. Scratch that idea for now. 38 hours passed 2 hours ago. However, i am preparing to do some manual removal with siphon. A 3 gallon water change will be made. This will also be the first WC in almost 2 weeks. I am going to keep the GFO in for another 8 hours after cleaning just incase more silicates are exposed.

 

[SandJ]

In most towns that probably seems like a great suggestion.

For better and worse, I'm in the D.C. area....more colleges per square centimeter than you could shake a stick at.

sending you a PM...

 

[StrangeDejavu]

Seems like frequent water changes are adding to the problem. At least for me. It does help to know where your phosphates are and what to expect with GFO.

My initial plan was to run GFO for 38 hours. As well as hooking up a UV sterilizer. Evidently the UV sterilizer has a dead lamp. Scratch that idea for now. 38 hours passed 2 hours ago. However, i am preparing to do some manual removal with siphon. A 3 gallon water change will be made. This will also be the first WC in almost 2 weeks. I am going to keep the GFO in for another 8 hours after cleaning just incase more silicates are exposed.

I do weekly 25% WCs and only have 2 fish in my BioCube 29 (small Clown and a Bangaii). Here's my parameters last time I tested:

Cal 475
Alk 8.4
Mag 1440
Salinity 1.026
pH 7.8
Temp 79
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0

PO4 and NO3 always read zero when I test, mainly because of my low bioload and algae using it up right now. Water is 0 TDS but not sure about silicate levels.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I do weekly 25% WCs and only have 2 fish in my BioCube 29 (small Clown and a Bangaii). Here's my parameters last time I tested:

Cal 475
Alk 8.4
Mag 1440
Salinity 1.026
pH 7.8
Temp 79
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0

PO4 and NO3 always read zero when I test, mainly because of my low bioload and algae using it up right now. Water is 0 TDS but not sure about silicate levels.

I would say if your PO4 and NO3 read zero, you should hold off on WC. Maybe do 10%-15% every 2 to 3 weeks. Are you dosing anything for calcium and alk?

 

[StrangeDejavu]

I would say if your PO4 and NO3 read zero, you should hold off on WC. Maybe do 10%-15% every 2 to 3 weeks. Are you dosing anything for calcium and alk?

I'm not, i'm just doing WCs with Reef Crystals. The problem started when I went on vacation last month. I came home to a large, dead trochus in the sandbed and algae everywhere. Dinos, bryopsis, spirulina, hair algae... you name it. This is what spurred the increased water changes.