Cinnamon clown with spots during copper treatment

[Spare time]

BTW what’s a better copper calc the Fishotel or Calconic? The issue I’m seeing with Calconic is that it goes down often. Like I just checked it and its down again lol

Manual

 

[bshake]

They can heal on their own.

lol so basically leave them alone and don’t tinker too much??

 

[Spare time]

lol so basically leave them alone and don’t tinker too much??

Tbh yeah that is what I would do.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So would Seachem Kanaplex help with healing the torn fins on the fish?

Yes. Good water quality will work But kanaplex will prevent any continued fin ray issue if any

 

[MnFish1]

I would not use antibiotics unless there is an active infection - and - with or without antibiotics, if the issue is fish nipping them, it will not help. I'm a fan of both neomycin and kanamycin - however, there also can be significant side effects that to me suggest being careful to only treat a problem, as compared to prevention. Second - I don't know BRS or other sites recommendations - so I can't comment on whether the advice is good or bad. We tend to recommend our protocol - since it makes things consistent. What can become difficult is when people are using combinations of 2 protocols, etc. Again - not criticizing other methods.

 

[bshake]

I would not use antibiotics unless there is an active infection - and - with or without antibiotics, if the issue is fish nipping them, it will not help. I'm a fan of both neomycin and kanamycin - however, there also can be significant side effects that to me suggest being careful to only treat a problem, as compared to prevention. Second - I don't know BRS or other sites recommendations - so I can't comment on whether the advice is good or bad. We tend to recommend our protocol - since it makes things consistent. What can become difficult is when people are using combinations of 2 protocols, etc. Again - not criticizing other methods.

Thank you for your input. I agree with what you’re saying

 

[bshake]

I was looking again at the fish and it doesn’t really look like spot more elongated and coming out of the body. I saw looking at a post from humble fish and it look more like Bacterial Tufts & Viral Nodules. I took out my mirrorless camera and put my 100mm macro and took some higher quality photos. I just attached them maybe it will help with verifying the issue because it’s weird to me that 32 days in copper now and it’s the only fish in the tank that’s covered like this. He’s swimming, eating and is very active chasing my wrasse

 

[bshake]

Looks very very similar to this

Bacterial Tufts & Viral Nodules

(Updated 3-2-2023) Bacterial Tufts Note: Credit for "bacterial tufts" terminology goes to Dr. Charlie Gregory (https://www.aquaveterinarian.com). It basically refers to white growths on a fish that are bacterial in nature. They oftentimes start out looking similar to Marine Ich trophonts (or...

humble.fish

 

[bshake]

@vetteguy53081 @MnFish1 @Jay Hemdal

 

[MnFish1]

f

I was looking again at the fish and it doesn’t really look like spot more elongated and coming out of the body. I saw looking at a post from humble fish and it look more like Bacterial Tufts & Viral Nodules. I took out my mirrorless camera and put my 100mm macro and took some higher quality photos. I just attached them maybe it will help with verifying the issue because it’s weird to me that 32 days in copper now and it’s the only fish in the tank that’s covered like this. He’s swimming, eating and is very active chasing my wrasse

You didn't really ask a question explicitly - but I think you're wondering about how to tell the difference between Tufts and an active CI infection? If so - tufts stay the same over days - Ich does not - spots come and go. Ich I s associated with tufts as well .

 

[MnFish1]

Sorry - I just saw you posted a video. will check it out

 

[bshake]

f

You didn't really ask a question explicitly - but I think you're wondering about how to tell the difference between Tufts and an active CI infection? If so - tufts stay the same over days - Ich does not - spots come and go. Ich I s associated with tufts as well .

It’s been 3 days not and doesn’t look like anything has really dropped off of the fish. I just checked the copper this morning and it’s still at 2.4ppm

 

[MnFish1]

Looks very very similar to this

Bacterial Tufts & Viral Nodules

(Updated 3-2-2023) Bacterial Tufts Note: Credit for "bacterial tufts" terminology goes to Dr. Charlie Gregory (https://www.aquaveterinarian.com). It basically refers to white growths on a fish that are bacterial in nature. They oftentimes start out looking similar to Marine Ich trophonts (or...

humble.fish

Thanks - this is an interesting link. I think Ich is the problem with the clown

 

[vetteguy53081]

This is ich and the second cinnamon this week. You will have to isolate fish and based on coverage other fish within tank them also in treatment setting and apply coppersafe at therapeutic level 2.2-2.5 with added aeration. Monitor copper level with a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna brand and also ammonia levels also with a reliable kit.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looks very very similar to this

Bacterial Tufts & Viral Nodules

(Updated 3-2-2023) Bacterial Tufts Note: Credit for "bacterial tufts" terminology goes to Dr. Charlie Gregory (https://www.aquaveterinarian.com). It basically refers to white growths on a fish that are bacterial in nature. They oftentimes start out looking similar to Marine Ich trophonts (or...

humble.fish

Bacterial tufts which im familair with are often congregated to one area. This is ich and as seen is widespread

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Looks very very similar to this

Bacterial Tufts & Viral Nodules

(Updated 3-2-2023) Bacterial Tufts Note: Credit for "bacterial tufts" terminology goes to Dr. Charlie Gregory (https://www.aquaveterinarian.com). It basically refers to white growths on a fish that are bacterial in nature. They oftentimes start out looking similar to Marine Ich trophonts (or...

humble.fish

Those are actually misnamed in that post - they are not caused by a virus, and there is no bacteria associated with them other than what is commonly found in the aquarium water. What they are seeing are just mucus plugs/cones. Most commonly seen in tangs, I can't remember the last time I saw them on a clownfish. The big issue is that one very common cause for these is ich. The ich trophont causes the fish's skin to produce excess mucus. I would be very surprised if these turned out to be idiopathic mucus plugs (that is, sterile plugs that just show up for no apparent reason).

Jay

 

[bshake]

This is ich and the second cinnamon this week. You will have to isolate fish and based on coverage other fish within tank them also in treatment setting and apply coppersafe at therapeutic level 2.2-2.5 with added aeration. Monitor copper level with a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna brand and also ammonia levels also with a reliable kit.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

I think you’re thinking about my OP from a few days ago. The fish had been in copper already for 33 days in a QT tank using copper power at 2.3-2.45 PPM measured with a Hanna copper checker every other day and the numbers have been consistent. The display tank has been taken apart and broken down since the last week of January I’m setting up a new tank with all new sand, rock and everything that’s being reused was socked is bleach. I agree it might be ich but I just don’t know how it’s possible that it gets reinfected with Ich?

 

[bshake]

Those are actually misnamed in that post - they are not caused by a virus, and there is no bacteria associated with them other than what is commonly found in the aquarium water. What they are seeing are just mucus plugs/cones. Most commonly seen in tangs, I can't remember the last time I saw them on a clownfish. The big issue is that one very common cause for these is ich. The ich trophont causes the fish's skin to produce excess mucus. I would be very surprised if these turned out to be idiopathic mucus plugs (that is, sterile plugs that just show up for no apparent reason).

Jay

From my understanding is that Ich can’t reinfect in copper. all my fish have been in a QT with copper power above therapeutic of 2.3-2.45 PPM since January 31 so over 30 days already. I check with a Hanna copper checker every other day and copper has been stable and the results have been consistent within 0.05 between tests. Every time my fish has had ich in the past I just saw salt like dots on the body. These are not just dots they look like they have a tail a bit elongated or like a comma.

 

[bshake]

The spots are elongated and protruding out of the body. I zoomed in more to give a better perspective. they’re not just dots they look like cones or like a comma. Since they’ve been in copper power for over 30 days above 2.3-2.45 checked with a Hanna copper checker every other day. None of the other fish in the tank show any signs or spots. Would you still consider this ich?


@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal

 

[vetteguy53081]

The spots are elongated and protruding out of the body. I zoomed in more to give a better perspective. they’re not just dots they look like cones or like a comma. Since they’ve been in copper power for over 30 days above 2.3-2.45 checked with a Hanna copper checker every other day. None of the other fish in the tank show any signs or spots. Would you still consider this ich?


@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal

That is correct. These are mucus cones which contain ich and treatment mentioned needs to be continued to offer best chance of eradication. Assure water quality is good as skin irritation will support these mucus cones