Desperately needed improvements for DOS

[VJV]

Seasons Greetings! @randyBRS now that you guys work in tandem with NEPTUNE, there are a couple of highly annoying but easily fixed problems with some of their products that if corrected will significantly boost sales volumes. In the case of the DOS (which is a brilliant unit that has never failed me, contrary to GHL Dosers that I had to change the plastic heads every month) these issues can easily be solved through software at minimum cost.

1 - Ability to do one off single doses. Simply telling it to dos XXmls and hit go, at any point in time. There is no simple and immediate way to do that currently as you are always forced to specify an interval, which is not always convenient

2 - Allow for display of leftover liquid in any deposit, not only DDR. This one is a very cheeky limitation that seems to exist only to force people to buy the DDR. I wonder how many customers have steered away from the DOS because of this. All current dosers are able to do it and is a very simple calculation where you only need to specify the container size, fill level and it automatically subtracts what ever it is programmed to dose to the above numbers. PLEASE fiz this.

3 - Allow for the implementation of forced intervals between additive dosing. Simply input how many minutes you want it to keep between doses and you are done.

All the best!

 

[homer1475]

You do realize this can all be done with a little DIY skills?

One off dosing setup with a virtual outlet, and a profile.

Leftover liquid in any container is simple too. Just a molex connector with the end cut off, and 2 wires bugged together, plugged into the DOS where the DDR would normally go, forces apex to think it has a DDR connected. While it does not "monitor" the fluid. it will subtract from the fill amount when dosing.

Adding times to your dosing in the advanced tab, or even an OSC command will perform this.

All of these solutions can be found on the apex forums, or right here on R2R.

 

[VJV]

Listen, I appreciate your post but it really does not advance this thread in any way. The fact that you would need to DIY a 350US2 head doser to do something that almost all the ones selling for half the price do out of the box is a weakness. My purpose here us to provide constructive criticism on how to improve the product, not trying to find convoluted workarounds that should not be needed in the first place.

A Virtual outlet will not allow you to dose a given amount in a one off at any point. Unless you will have a 5ml Virtual Outlet, a 10ml Virtual outlet, a 15ml…. This is nonsense, and should not even be required in the first place. A major flaw.

A “molex” conector???? Seriously??? Again, this is not some cheap 50 dollar chinese product. This is a 350 dollar 2 head doser. I should not have to run to the hardware store and put together a contraption to do something that, again, m ost its competitors do.

Adding times will almost never work, and you will end up with some doses occuring at the same time through out the day. Again. Most good dosers allow you to simply state an offset of XX minutes.

The units are great. But are let down by these easy to fix software flaws. Letting Neptune know this I believe is doing them a service.

 

[homer1475]

No you need 1 virtual outlet, and 1 profile for one off dosing. if you want to change the dosing amount, you go into the profile, and change the profile. It's not a workaround, but how neptune designed it.

I was tryimg to find the thread on neptunes forums for you, but can't seems to find it now.

I know one off dosing works, you just have to know how to set it up.

whether you think it's a cheap DIY or not, neptune designed the DOS to be used with the DDR. Nothing else will plug into the DOS and monitor fluid, they want you to buy the DDR. That probably won't change anytime soon. Show me any other doser that monitors fluid in a separate container, pretty sure there isn't one, and if there is, it's a simple add fluid amount and it subtracts from the amount while dosing, same exact thing the DDR does with a tile on your fusion dashboard. All my work around does, is tricks the apex into thinking there is a DDR connected and puts the tile on your fusion dashboard.

If you know how to program the apex, a simple OSC command put into the advanced tab on the DOS will split up your dosing. Ask me how I know this? Oh yeah, cause I do it. And no it does not overlap nor dose extra fluid amounts. Heck even a simple time command to turn on/off the doser when dosing is needed or not needed is all thats needed. You have to use neptunes programming logic, and learn how to use it to suit your needs. Not software flaws, but again how it's designed to work.

Not software flaws, but how they designed it, they want you to buy their products, not use third party hardware with their product. If you don't know how to program the DOS for what you want to do, maybe you should spend some time on neptunes forums learning how to properly program the DOS? Or even ask @SuncrestReef , his programming tutorials are second to none. And seems to me to be a master apex coder.

Either find work a rounds for the shortcomings, like I was suggesting to you, or switch to a different product.

These are workarounds to some extent, but others are just how they designed it. You have to work within neptunes design. None of them are hard to do.

I'm certainly not saying your suggestions are bad, I was just trying to show you there are workarounds for everything you commented on. None of them are hard or require more then 10 minutes of your time to fix.

Just because every other doser on the market can do what you want, doesn't mean neptune decided they wanted their doser to do everything every other doser can do, apparently they didn't. Although it can if your willing to put in a little effort to fix what you perceive as issues.

 

[FishyFishFish]

whether you think it's a cheap DIY or not, neptune designed the DOS to be used with the DDR. Nothing else will plug into the DOS and monitor fluid, they want you to buy the DDR. That probably won't change anytime soon. Show me any other doser that monitors fluid in a separate container, pretty sure there isn't one, and if there is, it's a simple add fluid amount and it subtracts from the amount while dosing, same exact thing the DDR does with a tile on your fusion dashboard. All my work around does, is tricks the apex into thinking there is a DDR connected and puts the tile on your fusion dashboard.

It never ceases to amaze me how people defend these large manufacturers for omissions/errors in their software that could easily be improved.

I wouldn’t call a dosing container ‘third party hardware’; it’s just a container!! I don’t use Apex but are you saying that it doesn’t calculate fluid use in any container? If so, that is a flaw. GHL dosers can do that and they alarm when the containers (any containers) are empty. If you are having to plug things into things to fool the system then there is a design flaw.

These manufacturers should be pressured into fixing these omissions. Workarounds should only be temporary until these fixes are implemented.

I agree with the OP that if these types of issues are highlighted and can be software corrected then they should be. Long term workarounds should not be considered acceptable for any professional system (i.e. anything that’s not DIY).

 

[homer1475]

OMG are you people that thick?

They designed it to work with their container. Any thing else will not work. How hard is that to understand? If they wanted the ability to use any container, they could have easily programmed it that way. If they did not come out with the DDR, then they would have coded so you could use any container.

Does GHL have a proprietary container to use with their doser? If they don't could be why you can use any container(yeah they don't I just looked).

I'm not defending them in any way, just pointing out why they work the way they do.

AGAIN THEY WANT YOU TO USE THEIR CONTAINER. Thats why they work the way they do. Kind of like how vortechs are no longer able to be controlled by the apex. Is it programming shortcomings for ecotech to not program their pumps to be used with the apex anymore, always worked prior to them coming out with the ecosmart? No it's cause they want you to use their software. Same with the DOS and DDR.

I would love to be bale to do what the OP wants to do without having to jump through hoops too. But that is not how they designed it 8 years ago, and will most likely never change.

I was just trying to point out there are ways to go about doing what neptune does not want you to do.

 

[homer1475]

So your both saying to me that you plan to use a product in a way that was not designed by the manufacturer, and that is a programming shortcoming?

Come on now, seriously?

Everything else can already be done with some simple coding. And that is how they designed it to work.

 

[FishyFishFish]

Are you thick? It’s a container!!!

Why so keen on defending them? Either you work for them or you are a shill.

 

[homer1475]

Neither actually. I just know how to use what was designed.

And yes it's a container, that they designed it to use with their doser. nothing else. it's that simple.

I'm out as you guys are obviously to thick to understand how to use a product they way it was designed not how you want to use it.

Love how you try to explain something, so I must be a shill or payed by them.

Reading comprehension is obviously a lost art form. I can't explain it any different.

THEY DESIGNED IT TO BE USED WITH THEIR CONTAINER. END OF STORY. NOT GOING TO CHANGE SINCE THEY MADE A CONTAINER FOR IT TO BE USED WITH.

 

[homer1475]

AND YES THEY ARE FORCING YOU TO BUY THEIR CONTAINER IF YOU WANT FLUID MONITORING. IT FORCES YOU INTO BUYING THEIR CONTAINER.

A CLEAR CUT WAY TO MAKE YOU BUY MORE PRODUCTS IF YOU WANT FLUID MONITORING.

money grab for sure, but thats probably not going to change.

And yes, plugging in a simple connector bought of amazon gives you the fluid monitoring ability like in GHL. It's a work around to not buying their container, either use it, or buy their container.

 

[FishyFishFish]

Having to rely on the DDR is a flaw.

What if it doesn’t fit in the space that I have in my cabinet? That means that I have to accept less functionality. Really??

One reason why other dosing manufacturers don’t make their own dosing containers is that a lot of people need a different shape/size. Neptune only make one size DDR afaik so there is no way it can cover all users. They also sell the DOS with and without the DDR, so they clearly anticipate that not all people will use it. If you are happy with that then fine, but you shouldn’t be jumping on people and calling them thick just because they have a different point of view.

I have absolutely no problem with reading comprehension, but it appears that you have lost the ability to put your point across and you only have insults left to try to get others to agree with you, which is not really the best debating technique.

 

[homer1475]

Sorry I get carried away sometimes when my point doesn't get across.

I apologize.

Flaw or not, the point is they want you to buy their container for fluid monitoring, hence why you can't use any container and have fluid monitoring within fusion. Is it a flaw, or a money grab? I would say a money grab since it's so simple to fool the system into thinking you have a DDR.

That probably won't change. I was simply trying to point out there is a work around if one would be so inclined to use it.

Everything else the OP wants to do can already be done with proper coding. It's not a shortcoming of the software if the user cannot understand how to code it.

 

[GlassMunky]

Neither actually. I just know how to use what was designed.

And yes it's a container, that they designed it to use with their doser. nothing else. it's that simple.

I'm out as you guys are obviously to thick to understand how to use a product they way it was designed not how you want to use it.

Love how you try to explain something, so I must be a shill or payed by them.

Reading comprehension is obviously a lost art form. I can't explain it any different.

THEY DESIGNED IT TO BE USED WITH THEIR CONTAINER. END OF STORY. NOT GOING TO CHANGE SINCE THEY MADE A CONTAINER FOR IT TO BE USED WITH.

You Really are thick here…. We get that that’s how it was designed. It obvious that’s the case and they are asking for it to be fixed moving foraward after 8 years of it being the way it is.
What’s soooo wrong to you about asking something to be better than it is?
Like that’s somehow rude or shouldn’t be done?
can people never be asked to improve?
that’s just nonsense

 

[homer1475]

I never said it didn't need to be improved, I actually said the OP's idea's were good ones.

I was simply trying to put it out there why it works the way it does, and all the coding can already be done if you know how to work within apex coding.

Does it need to be different, I couldn't agree more.

 

[homer1475]

Again I apologize if my posts came off rude, thick, or otherwise. Not my intention at all.

I tend to get heated and carried away when my point doesn't get across. Once I calm down I see the errors of my ways. Been that way for 47 years, doubt it's going to change.

Again I apologize.

 

[FishyFishFish]

It’s all good.

There just seems to be a general theme across several R2R threads that we, as consumers, should just put up with what is sold to us. It has happened a lot recently on the controller threads where customers defend a particular product as if they own the company.

For me, we all need to keep highlighting things that either we don’t like, or could be better, so that these companies are aware and have the option to make changes if they so desire. The companies that listen and make improvements are more likely to get my business than those who don’t.

If we all keep quiet and accept that we have to just put up with what these companies provide, then it will never get better. It is in everyone’s interest to highlight and push for these companies and products to be the best that they can be.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Seasons Greetings! @randyBRS now that you guys work in tandem with NEPTUNE, there are a couple of highly annoying but easily fixed problems with some of their products that if corrected will significantly boost sales volumes. In the case of the DOS (which is a brilliant unit that has never failed me, contrary to GHL Dosers that I had to change the plastic heads every month) these issues can easily be solved through software at minimum cost.

1 - Ability to do one off single doses. Simply telling it to dos XXmls and hit go, at any point in time. There is no simple and immediate way to do that currently as you are always forced to specify an interval, which is not always convenient

2 - Allow for display of leftover liquid in any deposit, not only DDR. This one is a very cheeky limitation that seems to exist only to force people to buy the DDR. I wonder how many customers have steered away from the DOS because of this. All current dosers are able to do it and is a very simple calculation where you only need to specify the container size, fill level and it automatically subtracts what ever it is programmed to dose to the above numbers. PLEASE fiz this.

3 - Allow for the implementation of forced intervals between additive dosing. Simply input how many minutes you want it to keep between doses and you are done.

All the best!

I have all of these on kamoer x1 pump

 

[VJV]

Sorry I get carried away sometimes when my point doesn't get across.

I apologize.

Flaw or not, the point is they want you to buy their container for fluid monitoring, hence why you can't use any container and have fluid monitoring within fusion. Is it a flaw, or a money grab? I would say a money grab since it's so simple to fool the system into thinking you have a DDR.

That probably won't change. I was simply trying to point out there is a work around if one would be so inclined to use it.

Everything else the OP wants to do can already be done with proper coding. It's not a shortcoming of the software if the user cannot understand how to code it.

It does not take a genius to understand what they want. I am an investment banker working in one of the world’s largest banks and although I do not claim to be a genious, I do not think that I am thick (although my wife might disagree).

I have had a hole GHL system with 3 dosers, KH Director, flow sensors, level sensors,Profilux4, etc. I have switched to Neptune because GHL was very thick and tied in to their beliefs. They believe that their product is the best and you either understand that or you go elsewhere. So I did.

As I said, I do love my Neptune gear. But these are serious flaws which if not fixed will lead to a lot of people doing what I did with my GHL. Look elsewhere. But I want Neptune gear to be the best, and I believe these flaws are hurting their bottom line. I believe whatever they make on the few DDRs sold does not come close to what they gain on the Dosers (due to volumes, not margins. The margin on the DDR containers is certainly huge).

If enough people chime in on these agreeing instead of explaining the workarounds maybe we will get better Neptune products going forward.

Cheers

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

It does not take a genius to understand what they want. I am an investment banker working in one of the world’s largest banks and although I do not claim to be a genious, I do not think that I am thick (although my wife might disagree).

I have had a hole GHL system with 3 dosers, KH Director, flow sensors, level sensors,Profilux4, etc. I have switched to Neptune because GHL was very thick and tied in to their beliefs. They believe that their product is the best and you either understand that or you go elsewhere. So I did.

As I said, I do love my Neptune gear. But these are serious flaws which if not fixed will lead to a lot of people doing what I did with my GHL. Look elsewhere. But I want Neptune gear to be the best, and I believe these flaws are hurting their bottom line. I believe whatever they make on the few DDRs sold does not come close to what they gain on the Dosers (due to volumes, not margins. The margin on the DDR containers is certainly huge).

If enough people chime in on these agreeing instead of explaining the workarounds maybe we will get better Neptune products going forward.

Cheers

I couldnt agree with you more. It is actually a big reason that I have not spent any money on Neptune gear. Why i sold my EcoTechs. and why i wont look at any of these other 'integrated systems'. I know they probably work very well together, but to have to shell out 4-5k just for aworking system..no thank you. I will stick with my piece my piece approach of quality but not integrated equiptment.