Doser setup on EVO 13.5

[Saltyreef24]

My Fluval Evo 13.5 has a ton of coralline algae which sucks up lots of alkalinity, calcium, and mag, so I recently setup a doser to maintain stable levels for my corals. It is my understanding that doser hoses should end in a spot which is:

- a high flow area of tank
- must be above the water line
- at edge of tank so I can secure to lip of glass
-preferably along back of tank so it is not an eyesore

I currently have my hoses hanging on the edge of the first filter chamber, which is at the back of the tank, and not attached to the lid so I can remove the lid easily for feeding or maintenance, but it is a low flow area so there is likely precipitation.

To combat precipitation, I diluted my alk, calcium, and mag supplements to 10% with RODI water and am dosing 10x volume, but spread out in 5 minute intervals. Now it is blowing through jars of the stuff because of the increased volume I am dosing.

Where should doser lines be run to on a tank such as this? Is there a better way to do it?

 

[MoshJosh]

If possible I would dose into the return chamber or just above your power head.

What product are you dosing, what is your dosing schedule, and what are your levels.

 

[Saltyreef24]

If possible I would dose into the return chamber or just above your power head.

What product are you dosing, what is your dosing schedule, and what are your levels.

My return chamber (where the pump is) is loaded with bio balls to incorporate extra surface area for beneficia bacteria, so it’s very low flow there.

The powerhead may or may not be staying, depending on if I get a BTA soon. If I do, I’m pulling the powerhead and upgrading my return pump to a sicce 0.5 with some Vca random flow generator nozzles.


Currently dosing:

2ml SeaChem fusion 1 (calcium):
13:00 5ml
13:05 5ml
13:10 5ml
13:15 5ml

3ml SeaChem fusion 2 (alkalinity):
10:00 5ml
10:05 5ml
10:10 5ml
18:00 5ml
18:05 5ml
18:10 5ml

3ml Brightwell aquatics magnesion:
15:00 5ml
15:05 5ml
15:10 5ml
15:15 5ml
15:20 5ml
15:25 5ml

All of these solutions are diluted to 10% product with RODI


Parameters:
Alk: 7dkh this morning(has been at consistent 8 for weeks)
Calcium: 330 as of 5/14
Mag: between 1050 and 1200, Haven’t tested it this week yet.

My targets are alk. 9dkh, calc. 420, and mag. 1400

 

[MoshJosh]

Typically you want to dose smaller amounts more often. Even if you were running the two part undiluted It would be better to spread the doses out across a 24 hour period as much as possible (this is what I would do, see below). Also, not sure you need to be dosing magnesium, as fusion 1 already has magnesium in it. Now of course if your tank has a high mag demand I guess, but I think that isn't super common especially if you are already dosing it in your two part. Randy Holmes-Farley has a thread about mag dosing and testing and basically he advises not testing for it (don't quote me, read his the thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/just-say-no-to-magnesium-testing-rmm-is-born.1017528/).

What I would do (and keep in mind I am just some guy on the internet): Stop dosing mag. Stop diluting the 2 part. Keep the powerhead or move the bio-balls out of the return chamber. Dose into either the powerhead or return chamber. Spread out your doses. Dose 1mL (undiluted) fusion 1 at 0000 and 1200. Dose 1mL (undiluted) fusion 2 at 0600 1400 and 2200 (of course do your own math, but that is what I got based on your current dose and current dilution). Then adjust your dosing from there depending on your levels. I would increase doses in 1mL increments adding a new dosing time i.e. increase from 3mL 3X a day to 4mL 4X a day.

I will say I have never dosed two part into such a small tank, but I do dose one part (All For Reef) into my 11 gallon, and I have manually dosed two part in larger volumes into my 45 gallon. . . all this leading me to believe there should be no issue with the above dosing schedule assuming you are dosing in intervals in a high flow area and your test results are accurate.

Sorry for the giant post and I hope it helps. Also, hopefully others can chime in with more advice.

 

[Lavey29]

Those are huge dosing numbers for a nano tank. I have a heavily stocked SPS dominant reef 65 g and only dose 30ml a day currently. Magnesium only depletes at 1/10th the rate of alk and calcium so no way that should be dosing at the same amount.

 

[Saltyreef24]

Those are huge dosing numbers for a nano tank. I have a heavily stocked SPS dominant reef 65 g and only dose 30ml a day currently. Magnesium only depletes at 1/10th the rate of alk and calcium so no way that should be dosing at the same amount.

I am dosing a lot of mag because I am trying to get my mag levels to recover rn. My reservoir for mag ran dry last week so i am playing catch-up. My tank does have a strong demand on alkalinity and a weaker demand on calcium and mag.

 

[Saltyreef24]

Typically you want to dose smaller amounts more often. Even if you were running the two part undiluted It would be better to spread the doses out across a 24 hour period as much as possible (this is what I would do, see below). Also, not sure you need to be dosing magnesium, as fusion 1 already has magnesium in it. Now of course if your tank has a high mag demand I guess, but I think that isn't super common especially if you are already dosing it in your two part. Randy Holmes-Farley has a thread about mag dosing and testing and basically he advises not testing for it (don't quote me, read his the thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/just-say-no-to-magnesium-testing-rmm-is-born.1017528/).

What I would do (and keep in mind I am just some guy on the internet): Stop dosing mag. Stop diluting the 2 part. Keep the powerhead or move the bio-balls out of the return chamber. Dose into either the powerhead or return chamber. Spread out your doses. Dose 1mL (undiluted) fusion 1 at 0000 and 1200. Dose 1mL (undiluted) fusion 2 at 0600 1400 and 2200 (of course do your own math, but that is what I got based on your current dose and current dilution). Then adjust your dosing from there depending on your levels. I would increase doses in 1mL increments adding a new dosing time i.e. increase from 3mL 3X a day to 4mL 4X a day.

I will say I have never dosed two part into such a small tank, but I do dose one part (All For Reef) into my 11 gallon, and I have manually dosed two part in larger volumes into my 45 gallon. . . all this leading me to believe there should be no issue with the above dosing schedule assuming you are dosing in intervals in a high flow area and your test results are accurate.

Sorry for the giant post and I hope it helps. Also, hopefully others can chime in with more advice.

My tank does have a relatively large mag draw, due to the large area of rocks and glass covered in coralline. When I only dose the 2 part, mag drops significantly. Used to be at 1400 when cal was 380ish and alk 10. Slacked on dosing for a little while and that’s why I got the doser and am playing catch up.

I have my schedule set to work around my work/sleep schedule because my tank is in my bedroom and the doser is loud. That is why I have nothing in the late evening or overnight.

I could spread out the alk a bit, but I don’t see why dosing at 3 times of day instead of 2 is much better.

If I dose alk undiluted it will always form visible precipitate unless it is added drop by drop right in front of my return pump or PH. I don’t see how there could be sufficient flow in the return chamber to keep precipitation at bay, even without the bioballs. And if it does form precipitate, I do not want to risk it building up inside of my return pump. The only solution I can see that would allow me to dose undiluted alk in the return chamber is if I got a mini powerhead to fit in that chamber to constantly stir the water to help dissolve the supplement.

 

[MoshJosh]

My tank does have a relatively large mag draw, due to the large area of rocks and glass covered in coralline. When I only dose the 2 part, mag drops significantly. Used to be at 1400 when cal was 380ish and alk 10. Slacked on dosing for a little while and that’s why I got the doser and am playing catch up.

I have my schedule set to work around my work/sleep schedule because my tank is in my bedroom and the doser is loud. That is why I have nothing in the late evening or overnight.

I could spread out the alk a bit, but I don’t see why dosing at 3 times of day instead of 2 is much better.

If I dose alk undiluted it will always form visible precipitate unless it is added drop by drop right in front of my return pump or PH. I don’t see how there could be sufficient flow in the return chamber to keep precipitation at bay, even without the bioballs. And if it does form precipitate, I do not want to risk it building up inside of my return pump. The only solution I can see that would allow me to dose undiluted alk in the return chamber is if I got a mini powerhead to fit in that chamber to constantly stir the water to help dissolve the supplement.

In this case spreading out the doses is probably not going to make a HUGE difference, but in theory the more you can spread out the doses the more stable the system will be. I think it is worth aiming for stability, though, I can understand that if it is interfering with your daily life (sleep), it might not be worth it.

You may be right about dosing into the return chamber given the low flow rate of the fluval return pump isn't super high. In that case I would dose into the powerhead. . .

In you OP it sounds like you have two concerns "Now it is blowing through jars of the stuff because of the increased volume I am dosing" and "Where should doser lines be run to on a tank such as this?"

I think the solution/answer in both cases is to dose undiluted into the powerhead with whatever schedule works for you. Doing so will interfere with your lid, though the fluval lids are fairly easy to modify.

That or keep dosing the diluted two part into a lower flow area. It is not the method I would use, but sounds like (according to google) people do use this method as a means of decreasing/stopping precipitation.

 

[Lavey29]

I am dosing a lot of mag because I am trying to get my mag levels to recover rn. My reservoir for mag ran dry last week so i am playing catch-up. My tank does have a strong demand on alkalinity and a weaker demand on calcium and mag.

I'm fairly confident your testing is inaccurate. My tank is covered in coralline, 80 mature corals, 38 acro colonies and mini colonies and I hand dose 15ml of magnesium once per week along with 30ml of alk and calcium daily via dose pump.

 

[MoshJosh]

I'm fairly confident your testing is inaccurate. My tank is covered in coralline, 80 mature corals, 38 acro colonies and mini colonies and I hand dose 15ml of magnesium once per week along with 30ml of alk and calcium daily.

Keep in mind Lavey that OP is diluting his supplements. If my calculations are correct OP is dosing the undiluted equivalent of 3mL alk 2mL cal and 3mL mag daily.

I do agree that OPs reported demand seems unusual given how few stony coral are in the tank. . . That’s why I used the caveat “assuming. . . your test results are accurate”

 

[Lavey29]

Keep in mind Lavey that OP is diluting his supplements. If my calculations are correct OP is dosing the undiluted equivalent of 3mL alk 2mL cal and 3mL mag daily.

I do agree that OPs reported demand seems unusual given how few stony coral are in the tank. . . That’s why I used the caveat “assuming. . . your test results are accurate”

Good point and I over looked that aspect. I see 20ml calcium. 30ml alk and 30ml magnesium dosing daily in his post. This seems quite high looking at his tank picture with new small corals and some moderate coralline splatter around the system but perhaps I'm not understanding his diluted dosing method. Randy has posted a bunch of times about magnesium only depleting at 1/10th the rate of alk and cal. With weekly water changes a nano tank should never be low on magnesium and rarely need to dose it. This is why I think there may be some test error and a second test by LFS may help confirm. Of course if he doesn't do weekly water changes then the consumption becomes more evident.

 

[SandNRocks]

I have the same tank. I dose into the return chamber right over the return pump. Honestly if youre doing even semi regular water changes, id simplify everything and just dose all for reef and check alkalinity. It works really well for keeping everything dialed in small reef tanks. If calcium goes down you can just add small amounts of the calcium supplement you have too. Here is my tank. I do like 10% wc every week or two, dose AFR only and dont have to check ca or mg. when i do its right in line. Cheers

 

[Saltyreef24]

Good point and I over looked that aspect. I see 20ml calcium. 30ml alk and 30ml magnesium dosing daily in his post. This seems quite high looking at his tank picture with new small corals and some moderate coralline splatter around the system but perhaps I'm not understanding his diluted dosing method. Randy has posted a bunch of times about magnesium only depleting at 1/10th the rate of alk and cal. With weekly water changes a nano tank should never be low on magnesium and rarely need to dose it. This is why I think there may be some test error and a second test by LFS may help confirm. Of course if he doesn't do weekly water changes then the consumption becomes more evident.

Yes because all of the supplements I dose are diluted to 10% strength (90% RODI) all numbers can be divided by 10 to make comparisons to a tank where the dosed supplements are not diluted. Also, all of the rocks you see were once bleach white Marco dry rocks. They are now nearly completely covered in coralline, explaining what you see as high demand when just taking into account the corals and the splatter of coralline on the back glass(used to scrape it clean weekly but decided last month to let it go purple). I have been doing. ~20% water changed once monthly. Also, the high ratio of mag to calcium that I am dosing is due partly to mag draw from the coralline and partly due to the fact that my doser ran out of mag without me noticing, so mag started to fall and I am now playing catch-up with a heavier dosing regiment until it gets back up where I want it.

 

[Saltyreef24]

I have the same tank. I dose into the return chamber right over the return pump. Honestly if youre doing even semi regular water changes, id simplify everything and just dose all for reef and check alkalinity. It works really well for keeping everything dialed in small reef tanks. If calcium goes down you can just add small amounts of the calcium supplement you have too. Here is my tank. I do like 10% wc every week or two, dose AFR only and dont have to check ca or mg. when i do its right in line. Cheers

Sweet tank! And thank you, that’s exactly what I am looking for. Do you have any issues with precipitation due to it not being a very high flow area to dose into? I have not used AFR before, so will have to look into it

 

[MoshJosh]

Shameless self and AFR plug

AFR in my 11 gallon:

 

[Saltyreef24]

Shameless self and AFR plug

AFR in my 11 gallon:

What lights are you using on that tank to get good sps growth?

 

[MoshJosh]

What lights are you using on that tank to get good sps growth?

It is a terrible set up I would not recommend replicating hahah I have 5 Fluval Marine Nanos over this 11 gallon tank. . .

 

[Lavey29]

Yes because all of the supplements I dose are diluted to 10% strength (90% RODI) all numbers can be divided by 10 to make comparisons to a tank where the dosed supplements are not diluted. Also, all of the rocks you see were once bleach white Marco dry rocks. They are now nearly completely covered in coralline, explaining what you see as high demand when just taking into account the corals and the splatter of coralline on the back glass(used to scrape it clean weekly but decided last month to let it go purple). I have been doing. ~20% water changed once monthly. Also, the high ratio of mag to calcium that I am dosing is due partly to mag draw from the coralline and partly due to the fact that my doser ran out of mag without me noticing, so mag started to fall and I am now playing catch-up with a heavier dosing regiment until it gets back up where I want it.

Well each tank is unique so I hope your method works out the way you want it to.