Experimental testing of Brightwell Boost pH +

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I received the bottle today. I’ll have the results tonight.

I’m going to use both salifert and Red Sea alk kits prior to additions, then ill add BBPH+ to get a pH of 8.3-8.4, then I’ll measure the alkalinity with salifert and Red Sea.

I’m going to use tank water.

Sounds good!

 

[taricha]

Is the product claim really an artifact of Boost pH+ interfering with pH indicators?

The interference (if real) is the wrong direction to help the product claim. It makes alk increase measurements more than it really does.
Opposite of their claim of not raising Alk.
BTW, I've also heard of other odd things (Prime) making the hanna Alk test read too high

I received the bottle today. I’ll have the results tonight.

I’m going to use both salifert and Red Sea alk kits prior to additions, then ill add BBPH+ to get a pH of 8.3-8.4, then I’ll measure the alkalinity with salifert and Red Sea.

I’m going to use tank water.

Don't forget to do a similar pH bump with NaOH on the same water.
From my perspective, the comparison between NaOH and Boost pH+ is more telling than just the raw measurements.

 

[Miami Reef]

Don't forget to do a similar pH bump with NaOH on the same water.
From my perspective, the comparison between NaOH and Boost pH+ is more telling than just the raw measurements.

I did though. You helped me make the graph for it, remember?

 

[Miami Reef]

I’m in the process of the experiment. One thing’s for sure: I need much more Brightwell boost pH + to get the pH jump than the 1N NaOH.

 

[Dan_P]

The interference (if real) is the wrong direction to help the product claim. It makes alk increase measurements more than it really does.
Opposite of their claim of not raising Alk.
BTW, I've also heard of other odd things (Prime) making the hanna Alk test read too high


Don't forget to do a similar pH bump with NaOH on the same water.
From my perspective, the comparison between NaOH and Boost pH+ is more telling than just the raw measurements.

Was the dye test for quats using a pH indicator?

 

[Miami Reef]

My graph skills need improvement, but I want to thank @taricha for helping me in pm. I really appreciate it.


Yes, Brightwell Boost pH+ raises alk. There's no question about it.

 

[rtparty]

 

[Miami Reef]

Randy wanted to test it with non hanna kits. I would’t have done it otherwise.

 

[rtparty]

Randy wanted to test it with non hanna kits. I would’t have done it otherwise.

*sarcasm*

Should have added that.

It’s Deja vu and exactly what we needed! Thank you

 

[Dan_P]

My graph skills need improvement, but I want to thank @taricha for helping me in pm. I really appreciate it.


Yes, Brightwell Boost pH+ raises alk. There's no question about it.

Nice demonstration! Graphing skills AOK.

Are the dye colors in the two alkalinity kits the same?

 

[Miami Reef]

Nice demonstration! Graphing skills AOK.

Are the dye colors in the two alkalinity kits the same?

Nope. Red Sea titrant is Orange. It turns from blue to green when pH is matched. Overdose causes it to turn yellow

Salifert needs 4 blue drops to turn the sample blueish green. The titrant is clear.

It turns from blueish green to purplish when complete, bright pink is overdose.

 

[taricha]

Was the dye test for quats using a pH indicator?

Yep, the lamotte QAC test used two indicators, Methyl Orange and Bromophenol Blue. The quat shifts both indicators the "wrong" way of their pH behavior generating a color with the indicators that isn't possible with just pH behavior.

 

[Dan_P]

Nope. Red Sea titrant is Orange. It turns from blue to green when pH is matched. Overdose causes it to turn yellow

Salifert needs 4 blue drops to turn the sample blueish green. The titrant is clear.

It turns from blueish green to purplish when complete, bright pink is overdose.

Thanks.

 

[Dan_P]

Yep, the lamotte QAC test used two indicators, Methyl Orange and Bromophenol Blue. The quat shifts both indicators the "wrong" way of their pH behavior generating a color with the indicators that isn't possible with just pH behavior.

Thanks!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Nope. Red Sea titrant is Orange. It turns from blue to green when pH is matched. Overdose causes it to turn yellow

Salifert needs 4 blue drops to turn the sample blueish green. The titrant is clear.

It turns from blueish green to purplish when complete, bright pink is overdose.

Thanks very much for doing this experiment!

Any chance we can get a Red Sea alk test on hydroxide with a similar alk rise or pH rise as the Boost pH+?

Sorry to seem demanding, but the more evidence we have, the easier it will be to convince Jack.

 

[taricha]

Here's a summary of the different data sets we have....
In Blue is MiamiReef NaOH from post 77 & 83,
and using Boost (post 126)
In Red is Dan's sets using NaOH and Boost pH (from post 112)
and green is Dan's sets using NaOH and Boost pH in new mixed SW (also from post 112).
All other sets are on tank water.
Yellow is MiamiReef's boost pH measured with Red Sea. Other MiamiReef alk is salifert, and Dan's is hanna.

In all paired sets with NaOH (circles) and Boost (triangles), Boost pH+ gives an alk increase that is measured to be equal or greater than the alk increase from NaOH.
Dan's other data makes a good speculative case that the "higher than" alk result is an error caused by pH indicator interference, but it seems beside the point - all measurements with 3 different test kits show that the alk increase of Boost pH is at least as big as the alk increase from NaOH of the same pH increase.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Excellent summary graph!

 

[Miami Reef]

Thanks very much for doing this experiment!

Any chance we can get a Red Sea alk test on hydroxide with a similar alk rise or pH rise as the Boost pH+?

Sorry to seem demanding, but the more evidence we have, the easier it will be to convince Jack.

I’d love to.

I remember Taricha did a NaOH experiment with the Red Sea.

Here's what it looks like with NaOH on my tank water.
1 Liter tank water. additions of 1.0M NaOH.
Initial pH 7.72
API:
8 drops green, 9 drops yellow
8 green, 9 yellow

Red Sea: 9.1, 9.1 (0.65mL titrant)

added 0.100mL of 1M NaOH so 0.1 meq/L

pH 7.92
API: 8 drops blue-green, 9 drops yellow
Red Sea 9.3-9.4 (0.67mL titrant)

added a second 0.100mL of 1M NaOH so total 0.2meq/L

pH 8.06
API:
8 drops blue-green, 9 drops yellow with a little green
8 blue-green, 9 yellow with a little green

Red Sea: 9.5-9.6, 9.5-9.6 (0.68-0.69mL titrant)

API instructions are "when it goes from blue to yellow", so you could choose to round all those results to "yellow at 9dKH", but if you look at the colors, it's clear there's a difference, but something less than a full drop.

Red Sea Alk works fine for this. The 1.00mL syringe dispensing the titrant is plenty to pick up what is happening. Look at the target color on the card, average the titrant value when the color is just detectably "bluer" than the target color with the titrant volume when it's just detectably "yellower" than the target.

If it's done side by side with the product and NaOH, it should be clear what's going on.

If you still need me to replicate it with similar alk and pH changes, let me know. I have no issue about doing this.

 

[taricha]

If you still need me to replicate it with similar alk and pH changes, let me know. I have no issue about doing this.

Yeah, you should do it. Your tank water and your Red Sea kit would be a much cleaner comparison than comparing Boost in your tank water to NaOH in my tank water with our different Red Sea kits.

 

[Dan_P]

Here's a summary of the different data sets we have....
In Blue is MiamiReef NaOH from post 77 & 83,
and using Boost (post 126)
In Red is Dan's sets using NaOH and Boost pH (from post 112)
and green is Dan's sets using NaOH and Boost pH in new mixed SW (also from post 112).
All other sets are on tank water.
Yellow is MiamiReef's boost pH measured with Red Sea. Other MiamiReef alk is salifert, and Dan's is hanna.

In all paired sets with NaOH (circles) and Boost (triangles), Boost pH+ gives an alk increase that is measured to be equal or greater than the alk increase from NaOH.
Dan's other data makes a good speculative case that the "higher than" alk result is an error caused by pH indicator interference, but it seems beside the point - all measurements with 3 different test kits show that the alk increase of Boost pH is at least as big as the alk increase from NaOH of the same pH increase.

You are a data rodeo master, rounding up all those data doggies(sp)

Thanks!