General DIY LED thread
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Steven Garland
Valuable Member
What kelvin are you looking for ?
Right now I've got two LED clusters on each light and each cluster has one 3500k or one 4000k CLU048-1212. They are way too big and too warm, so I'm thinking if I switched all of them to something smaller that's at least 4000k and high CRI then things will look a bit better. Not only do I have the trim pot turned down about half way on my driver boards, but I'm only running these cobs at like 3-5% max during the day lol.
Replacements that I'm looking at are Luxeon SunPlus, Bridgelux vero/BXRE/BXRH, Cree CXA/CXB, or Citizen CLU028-1204. I see that oreo5457 found the freshfish sold individually and I had actually seen that listing before, but the price seems a bit unreasonable when they're listed elsewhere for ~$12 (albeit out of stock) and there are the alternatives listed about which are much cheaper.
Steven Garland
Valuable Member
Hmmmm.. Well RapidLed has some Cree CXB 3590 Cobs for $30 plus shipping.
LedSupply has Cree CXB 1520 Cobs for $20 plus shipping.
LedSupply has Cree CXB 1520 Cobs for $20 plus shipping.
Yes but good luck finding any of them.
Bridgelux (and CREE) always advertises 6500K but rarely if ever do I see ind. COB's
If you switch to about 5000K there are plenty.
Oh and the ff listed is a bigger COB than the ones you probably saw.
There are many other companies with high CRI but most stop at 5000-5600K
I see you have a "size restriction"..Well keep in mind you can always repurpose to freshwater or house plants.
Running cool will keep resale value
though with any "bulb" I doubt it is too good anyways regardless. Psychology.OUTside the box...
Color tunable (again multiple vendors)
CTM-18-6527-90-36-TW01 Luminus Devices Inc. | Optoelectronics | DigiKey
Order today, ships today. CTM-18-6527-90-36-TW01 – LED Lighting COBs Engines Modules LED Module series White, Warm / White, Cool Rectangle from Luminus Devices Inc.. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.
CTM-9-6527-90-36-TW01 Luminus Devices Inc. | Optoelectronics | DigiKey
Order today, ships today. CTM-9-6527-90-36-TW01 – LED Lighting COBs Engines Modules LED Module series White, Warm / White, Cool Rectangle from Luminus Devices Inc.. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.
With the 6500k north of the CCT locus should have a decent cyan component.
CCT Tunable LED Spot Modules Datasheet by Luminus Devices Inc. | Digi-Key Electronics
View datasheets for CCT Tunable LED Spot Modules by Luminus Devices Inc. and other related components here.
www.digikey.com
I've used Luminous Devices COB's in the past, not the most efficient COB but generally this drops w/ CRI anyways.
Keep in mind MAX curent is cumulative i.e 660 is like 330 per "channel"
IF you just hook one channel you are ok at the max.
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Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of those luminus cobs. Not sure they would work for my set up though. What color temp would you recommend? Each cluster has a Luxeon k16 royal blue, a 3-up with a mix of violet from 400nm to 430nm, and a 3-up with one luxeon Rebel ES cool blue and two Rebel ES cyan. I've also got another 3 up I can add which has either two blue and a cyan, or two cyan and a blue. I can't remember which it is lol.
Steven Garland
Valuable Member
I'm interested in your light build,got a thread ?
No, pretty much just what I've posted in this thread. There's a pic in this post and details in posts before and after it: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/general-diy-led-thread.534238/page-26#post-7041612
OK first your goals?
You pretty well hammered the blue spread..
DISCLAIMER. I dabble, consult and build freshwater arrays (hobbyist level) and dabble in theoretical saltwater arrays as a err intellectual pursuit. The suggestions are based on the best of my ability and numerous years of research. Coral lighting is pretty well a bit of an incomplete book though.
Freshwater is simpler and fewer acceptable "looks"
That said really you are only adding visual appeal for yourself.
You could do anything from high PAR white to make like 8000-12000K lights or just enough to add color for your missing frequencies.
Technically all one would need is to add a simulated white via RGB diodes ala Lassi.
Since you have plenty of blue and cyan is a fair substitute for green all you are missing is "red".
But not recommended to add just red.
But a couple of questions first.
What is your channel arrangement?
3 ups in series?
Now my instinct is to pair another 3 up (seperate channel but in series) with your cool blue 2x cyan with your missing colors.
Like so..
Problem is with series diodes one may have output mismatched skewing the simulation.
Advantage is you don't add yellow,
NOTE that is the two 3 ups paired.
There are a million combinations possible.
There are more fun diodes to use like PCAmber and Lime but since this is sort of experimental...
See amber and lime in Orpheks, Radions, and Coralcare.
Metal Halides spike in amber and green and technically they don't use "white" like LED (yellow phosphor blue pump).
Just my 2 cents.
If you look back you will find some builds using this sort of arrangement.
No guarantees though.
Note I used regular red, could substitute deep red (660nm) for it.
Will shift the Kelvin temp of the 6 combined higher .
Also note first one uses a 1: 2 ratio of blue/cyan to amber/red/green.
and K12 blue and violet 3 ups are just your "blue" channel.
Should have some cyan in it so this is a bit of a compromise.
Above is your "white" channel so to speak.
4 channels
K12
Violets
blue/cyan
Ancillary channel
Normally I'd not include any "normal" green due to it's inefficiency but.. well just spitballing here.
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Lingwendil
Well-Known Member
I haven't been following the discussion for a while (crazy year!!!) But thought some of you may find it useful that Rapid LED is selling their heatsinks from the Corona fixture separate now-
Could be nice for some sleeker looking builds.
I picked up a 180 gallon reef ready for $400 with stand for our new house (!) But it'll be a freshwater planted setup. I may post the build here when the time comes it it still needs to be cleaned up and brought in from the garage for plumbing and everything else first.
I'm going to go back and read the last few pages here today
Could be nice for some sleeker looking builds.
I picked up a 180 gallon reef ready for $400 with stand for our new house (!) But it'll be a freshwater planted setup. I may post the build here when the time comes it it still needs to be cleaned up and brought in from the garage for plumbing and everything else first.
I'm going to go back and read the last few pages here today
Glad to see you back on here. I was just looking at the perkint controller thread on ultimate reef. I'm disappointed it died before anyone got something going with the ESP8266 as that's what I'm using and it's working well for me. I was actually looking at that thread because I'm using EasyEDA for the first time in an attempt to emulate the LM3414HV PCBs from MrMan with the onboard ESP8266. I'm also working on designing a stripped down version that can be slaved to an ESP8266 master PCB or hooked up to a Storm X/Bluefish Mini. I know nothing of circuit or PCB design so it's taking a ton of research, but I am making progress. I was thinking of starting a thread here so I could get input from others with much more experience. I'm not sure there would be much interest though.I haven't been following the discussion for a while (crazy year!!!) But thought some of you may find it useful that Rapid LED is selling their heatsinks from the Corona fixture separate now-
Could be nice for some sleeker looking builds.
I picked up a 180 gallon reef ready for $400 with stand for our new house (!) But it'll be a freshwater planted setup. I may post the build here when the time comes it it still needs to be cleaned up and brought in from the garage for plumbing and everything else first.
I'm going to go back and read the last few pages here today
I also saw those corona heatsinks. Unfortunately it looks like they don't come with the top plate or the bottom LED cover which are vital for completing the sleek look IMO. Maybe those parts could be 3D printed? If these heatsinks were complete I'd probably prefer to use them over the RapidLED "Premium" heatsinks that I'm using now.
The light has 6 channels with a LRS-350-48 power supply.
Channel 1: K16 (~44v ea.)
Channel 2: K16
Channel 3: CLU048-1212 (36v ea.)
Channel 4: CLU048-1212
Channel 5: Two 400-430nm violet 3-ups
Channel 6: Two cool blue/cyan/cyan 3-ups
I can't put the K16 or COBs on the same channel because they'd exceed the voltage limits of the drivers. What I'm thinking would be nice is it to find a high CRI COB (like the freshfish) that's got a voltage low enough that I could run two of them on one channel. This would free up a channel for the blue/blue/cyan 3-ups with maybe mint or something thrown in. However, I think that if I find a more reasonably sized COB in the 4000k range I'll have the red end of the spectrum covered and have greater control over my white channel. Plus, paired with the blue/cyan/maybe mint LEDs I'm hoping there would be no need to mess around with also adding things like amber, green, or red LEDs. I should probably also mention that I've got two Blue+ T5 bulbs over the tank as well. So I don't really need to add any LEDs to what I've already got, I just need to find a lower voltage (<20v), 90+ CRI white COB in the 4000-5000k range. Ideally they'd be under $10 each because I'll need six of them which adds up quick. I guess one of my biggest questions is how high can I go in color temp while still getting good coverage in the red end of the spectrum and without adding any LEDs to what what I already have? Is 6500k too high? 5000k?
What affects the cri ( color rendition) of cheap 6500k's is lack of cyan/red.
Ff suppliments both, cree/ bridgelux favors red w/ the same results (cri being a sum not all are alike)
From what you wrote earlier you hardly use the white cobs . Though there are plenty if small cobs (going down to like 5 volts) you can do just like your violet cyan channels.
So you end up w/ one less channel.
Might as well use something like Steves
Their spectrum is almost identical to the ff
At 3 5v @ 1.2A you can run 12 or so
Catch us the beam angle is wide, like 130 degrees or more if I remember correctly.
12 sunplus cool whites is about $20 currently.
Going low like 4000k poses the risk of too much yellow.
Also keep in mind the standards that one judges it by switches between k temps .
Low k's tungsten model, high k's daylight model.
You don't " need" white just parts of the spectrum.
My 3up board suggestion would run about $49 from steves. 4 boards on one channel. About 10v per one.
The
assumption of course is you aren't really using it for par .
I'm not commenting on the warm white cob useage except to say yes more red than 6500 k
There are plenty if cheap obes with good cri available since they are more err human centric thus larger market.
I've even grown " uncomfortable" with them in freshwater aquariums.
Others that posted here have used them.
Ff suppliments both, cree/ bridgelux favors red w/ the same results (cri being a sum not all are alike)
From what you wrote earlier you hardly use the white cobs . Though there are plenty if small cobs (going down to like 5 volts) you can do just like your violet cyan channels.
So you end up w/ one less channel.
Might as well use something like Steves
Luxeon SunPlus Cool White 3W
www.stevesleds.com
At 3 5v @ 1.2A you can run 12 or so
Catch us the beam angle is wide, like 130 degrees or more if I remember correctly.
12 sunplus cool whites is about $20 currently.
Going low like 4000k poses the risk of too much yellow.
Also keep in mind the standards that one judges it by switches between k temps .
Low k's tungsten model, high k's daylight model.
You don't " need" white just parts of the spectrum.
My 3up board suggestion would run about $49 from steves. 4 boards on one channel. About 10v per one.
The
assumption of course is you aren't really using it for par .
I'm not commenting on the warm white cob useage except to say yes more red than 6500 k
There are plenty if cheap obes with good cri available since they are more err human centric thus larger market.
I've even grown " uncomfortable" with them in freshwater aquariums.
Others that posted here have used them.
Steven Garland
Valuable Member
Those were not on there the other days. It looks like they killed a few of their violets as well. So I shot them an email to see what they have left.
I may grab on of those Rona sinks,and a few more 390-400 and 420-430. And then snag a few more warm whites,cyan,royals and mints from Steves and replace my Prime 16HD. I have NEVER been happy with the look. So I always run it with rb,violets and cool blues.
I may grab on of those Rona sinks,and a few more 390-400 and 420-430. And then snag a few more warm whites,cyan,royals and mints from Steves and replace my Prime 16HD. I have NEVER been happy with the look. So I always run it with rb,violets and cool blues.
Steven Garland
Valuable Member
Do you guys feel like about 20 leds driven at 700mah at 76 degrees ambient air temp I could use passive cooling ? I know that Rapids description says 75-90w but idk about that.
Just some background.
www.reef2reef.com
No white light
You can have this without any white LEDs - just use the RGB trick. It means Red, Green and Blue. Look at the Pictures from my tank - no White LEDs there Sincerely Lasse The thing that you guys are missing on this is that there are two different color scales. So let's say your mixing paint...
www.reef2reef.com
Heat sinks are sort of an art, or really complicated science..
70-90 on Rapid prob includes the use of the fan.
You are probably at 49-ish watts w/ the above.
Depending on channel dimming could be much lower.
There are all sorts of "rules of thumb" but the only real one is measuring BUT correct measurements are really difficult (die temps)
I've had no issues with sink temps up to 140F.. Granted single COB's or smaller clusters.
Newest diodes can take more heat. It is one "goal" manuf are chasing.
A 3x3x1.5 pinned heatsink will take 14W and 135F sink temp.
Heat Sink Size Calculator | Celsia
Free online calculator used to estimate heat sink size during the initial design phase. Designed for mechanical and thermal engineers.
celsiainc.com
My "guesstimate" heat sink falls in line w/ the calculator... barely.
Need to make assumptions though.
A simpler rule of thumb:
Things I read and take to heart.
1)Serrated threads make no difference
2) Anodizing is almost a necessity in passive cooling. Color doesn't matter.
Paint is a reasonable substitute.
3)Fins are not considered 1:1 in heat transfer capacity than say flat surface area.
Believe the "correction factor" is like 33-50%. I temporarily lost it.."Think" it's 33%
Like 18 cm sq fins can dissipate 1W vs 6cm sq flat.
Math for the so inclined:
www.abl-heatsinks.co.uk
16cm x 16cm sq for 42.6W
Things I read and take to heart.
1)Serrated threads make no difference
2) Anodizing is almost a necessity in passive cooling. Color doesn't matter.
Paint is a reasonable substitute.
3)Fins are not considered 1:1 in heat transfer capacity than say flat surface area.
Believe the "correction factor" is like 33-50%. I temporarily lost it.."Think" it's 33%
Like 18 cm sq fins can dissipate 1W vs 6cm sq flat.
Math for the so inclined:
Heatsink Design
When selecting or designing a heatsink there are a number of important factors to be considered.
www.abl-heatsinks.co.uk
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Steven Garland
Valuable Member
I never run fans,EVER one because if the tank is in my room I always have a ceiling fan and a floor ran. Which both are ALWAYS on,so air is circulating just not DIRECTLY at the sink itself.
I'm just curious because I have never had a led burn out due to heat and never had a sink too hot to where I couldn't rest my hands on it for long periods of time.
I'm just curious because I have never had a led burn out due to heat and never had a sink too hot to where I couldn't rest my hands on it for long periods of time.
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