HELP! MY SPS ARE PALING AND I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO

[Russ265]

if you guys dont mind. please take befores and afters.

instead of white tips, lets see some colored ones

 

[Mattrg02]

keep it yellow with a very slight tinge of orange. i know that isnt scientific but you dont have a very granular kit.
no3 can swing but when dosing if you introduce too much at once i have seen corals recede for a couple hours.
just feed your fish as normal for po4 and turn gfo on if you see a rise beyond .08

Good to know. API sucks in that Orange is either 5 or 10ppm nitrate.

Is mysis good for phosphates? I don't rinse but also only feed enough such that each fish gets two good mouth fulls or so. No wasted mysis. Should I be feeling some pellets as well?

 

[Mattrg02]

if you guys dont mind. please take befores and afters.

instead of white tips, lets see some colored ones

I just bought a Nikon d3300. Need to figure out how to take pictures with all the blue from my kessil 360we. Any tips?

 

[Russ265]

Good to know. API sucks in that Orange is either 5 or 10ppm nitrate.

Is mysis good for phosphates? I don't rinse but also only feed enough such that each fish gets two good mouth fulls or so. No wasted mysis. Should I be feeling some pellets as well?

pellets raise my phosphates more than cubed mysis. idk. maybe the whole rinsing cubes stuff caught on. or maybe my fish miss some pellets.

 

[Russ265]

I just bought a Nikon d3300. Need to figure out how to take pictures with all the blue from my kessil 360we. Any tips?

my pics are so bad. i need lessons from you guys. i really am the worst aquarium photographer.

my iphone and leds dont make it any easier.

 

[blackgate]

Russ, what would you consider working nutrient numbers? I know everyone's tank will vary, but what would be a good range?

 

[Russ265]

Russ, what would you consider working nutrient numbers? I know everyone's tank will vary, but what would be a good range?

this will be my experience. please do not take these numbers as gospel.

type of system : alk : nitrate : phosphate

ulns : 7s : 2-5ppm : .02-.08
lns : 8s : 5-10ppm : .02 - .15
others: 8-11 : 10-20ppm : .1 - .25ppm (depending on severity)

this is MY OPINION only. i have NOTHING to back these numbers up. i just pulled them out of thin air. lol

hth -for what it is worth

 

[blackgate]

It does help, I just got back from vacation and I knew my autofeeder was set a little aggressively and when I tested phosphates today which were at .00 before vacation, are now testing at .04 and .08 (I usually test twice on my Hanna). I was just about to pull gfo offline but I don't know if I should now. My nitrates are of course 0 and I will begin dosing tomorrow when it comes in. Whatcha think?

 

[Russ265]

It does help, I just got back from vacation and I knew my autofeeder was set a little aggressively and when I tested phosphates today which were at .00 before vacation, are now testing at .04 and .08 (I usually test twice on my Hanna). I was just about to pull gfo offline but I don't know if I should now. My nitrates are of course 0 and I will begin dosing tomorrow when it comes in. Whatcha think?

id kick gfo on and knock it back to .02. should only take an hour or so depending on your filtration.

nitrates NEED to be above po4. you risk gha and cyano leaving po4>no3

hth

 

[blackgate]

Ok, thanks for the input. I will def. document my 93 gal cube nitrate dosing and let you know.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

Ok so here are my numbers Russ.

Well first observation, 24 hours after Chemiclean (using 75% of what is instructed) I still have cyano appearing on the sand bed when the lights are at full peak. The red cyano appears to be dulling so I think it may be working. Should I hold off of the extra 25% (full 100% instructed)?

So parameters.

Alk 8.34dkH (I just lower kH doser from 28ml to 27ml, a day, to find a spot where this will stop rising)
Calcium 420ppm (Raised from 24ml to 25ml to find that sweet spot as well) - The rising dkH dropped this a tad.
PO4: Still showing 0.00ppm
Nitrates: Red Sea kit shows barely a hint of pink so maybe 0.05 - 0.1 (very minimal) - Maybe my chaeto still eating it up...

GFO/Carbon reactor still off. Will be running Carbon only in the next 24 hours after Chemiclean is done.
Skimmer cup is off but skimmer is running to help with aeration.

I've been adding a full cube of Mysis, daily, to help slightly overfeed my fish to increase Nitrate production. Have my Seachem Stability on stand by

FYI - I couldn't run alkalinity under 8.0 because my pH would drop below 7.8

Any thoughts?

 

[Russ265]

Ok so here are my numbers Russ.

Well first observation, 24 hours after Chemiclean (using 75% of what is instructed) I still have cyano appearing on the sand bed when the lights are at full peak. The red cyano appears to be dulling so I think it may be working. Should I hold off of the extra 25% (full 100% instructed)?

So parameters.

Alk 8.34dkH (I just lower kH doser from 28ml to 27ml, a day, to find a spot where this will stop rising)
Calcium 420ppm (Raised from 24ml to 25ml to find that sweet spot as well) - The rising dkH dropped this a tad.
PO4: Still showing 0.00ppm
Nitrates: Red Sea kit shows barely a hint of pink so maybe 0.05 - 0.1 (very minimal) - Maybe my chaeto still eating it up...

GFO/Carbon reactor still off. Will be running Carbon only in the next 24 hours after Chemiclean is done.
Skimmer cup is off but skimmer is running to help with aeration.

I've been adding a full cube of Mysis, daily, to help slightly overfeed my fish to increase Nitrate production. Have my Seachem Stability on stand by

FYI - I couldn't run alkalinity under 8.0 because my pH would drop below 7.8

Any thoughts?

run the extra 25% and give full 100% dose. it should be gone in 48 hours.

open your blinds and windows. let your peskie neighbors see your walt disney *BEEP* tonight. you need aeration imo.

i still think nitrates are low. you cut the skimmer and pellets off?

 

[ReefMadScientist]

run the extra 25% and give full 100% dose. it should be gone in 48 hours.

open your blinds and windows. let your peskie neighbors see your walt disney *BEEP* tonight. you need aeration imo.

i still think nitrates are low. you cut the skimmer and pellets off?

Haha Can't if I wanted too. Its 113 today

Okay will add the 25% Chemiclean.

Nitrates, I agree, are low. My GFO/Carbon have been off. I am running my skimmer but only for aeration. The skimmer cup is off and the Chemiclean just bubbles over the open skimmer. So yes/no. The skimmer is on but not for collection purposes. I have sections in my sump that use the skimmer run-off to fill so I need to use it as a pump/huge air stone lol

* My Copperband has been eating all my Aptasia

 

[dbrewsky]

perhaps the redfield ratio has an influence in the development of dinoflagellets as well? Might explain why some people cant beat it by lowering nutrients, but actually stopping water changes etc until other bacteria can take control and out compete because of the building levels of nitrate?

In the freshwater planted world algae growth in a super nutrient high environment is always because of some kind of imbalance between nutrients. To the point which you can actually diagnose the imbalances showing up in the system based on what algae is growing. Alot of the theory behind the high tech tanks is ensure that you always have enough nutrients in the system following the redfield ratio that the algae is out competed by the plants themselves whether that 40ppm of nitrate and 5ppm of phosphate so to speak or 10ppm of nitrate and 1 ppm of phosphate the concept still seems to prove that imbalances in nutrients cause the proliferation of algae.

I have thought quite a bit as well if these concepts affected corals and zooxanthelle.

 

[Russ265]

perhaps the redfield ratio has an influence in the development of dinoflagellets as well? Might explain why some people cant beat it by lowering nutrients, but actually stopping water changes etc until other bacteria can take control and out compete because of the building levels of nitrate?

In the freshwater planted world algae growth in a super nutrient high environment is always because of some kind of imbalance between nutrients. To the point which you can actually diagnose the imbalances showing up in the system based on what algae is growing. Alot of the theory behind the high tech tanks is ensure that you always have enough nutrients in the system following the redfield ratio that the algae is out competed by the plants themselves whether that 40ppm of nitrate and 5ppm of phosphate so to speak or 10ppm of nitrate and 1 ppm of phosphate the concept still seems to prove that imbalances in nutrients cause the proliferation of algae.

I have thought quite a bit as well if these concepts affected corals and zooxanthelle.

great post and interesting thought experiment. i havent read up on dinoflagellate eradication and would think dinoflagelletes have the same needs as zooxanthellae. both are dinoflagelletes, however the needs of the ones invading the sand bed may be different than symbiodinium.
i've never had a dino outbreak, even in my nutrient rich 220 so never read up.

i will say that my 265 feels incredibly balanced following the big 3 (alk/mag/cal) with redfield (no3/po4) - excluding carbon.

no algae blooms, cyano, or weird unexpected numbers.

 

[rovster]

Russ, I'm surprised at your Purple/Brown acro assessment. In my experience that purple brown burnt look is from high nutrients. I've seen this in my own tank and in my friends tanks. Around 6 months ago I had a tank "funk" I just could not figure out. Most people told me to feed more, but my gut told me my tank was high in nutrients. Even with this, my numbers suggested otherwise. At the time I was running a fuge full of chaeto and my numbers were 0 nitrate and 0.03 phos, perfect right?

The kicker for me was that my chaeto was flourishing, there was no algae in the tank. The chaeto was masking the relative nutrient levels in the tank. So great numbers, no algae, acros should look great right? Wrong.....

Here are some examples of the "burnt" look I refer to. Some STN, overall ragged, dark, greyish tone, loss of luster. Again, numbers were PERFECT according to tests.....I will also post right after some recovery pics. All I did was put the tank on an extreme diet and started carbon dosing. No more additives, just fed the fish. After a couple of months most pieces made a great recovery, some are still recovering....

Tricolor, lackluster, greyish tone......


Recovered and growing...



Sunny-X mille, lackluster, just crappy looking....


This pic was at the start of recovery, looks amazing today...



Green Table, burnt tips, STN, nasty....


Mostly Recovered....



This was a beautiful blue tort. Got RAVAGED!


Recovering...you should see it today!


Slimer. Also ravaged. Thought I was going to lose it....


Sorry about the blue but recovered....



Blue Matrix out of focus, and sunset monti just angry.....


Recovered, and you can see the recovered monti in a pic above.....


Ragged Mirabilis.....


Still recovering....




This piece was taken from a friends tank that was in my opinion having "nutrient issues". His tests said otherwise.....

I call it the "turdcake"....burnt, purply brown, dark just looks like its been living in toilet water....


Last weekend....



I can go on and on and on and on!


Long story short, after the extreme diet my tank went ULNS and then the paling began. Ever since then, its been an up and down but thankfully nothing extreme. Still trying to reach equilibrium as far as nutrients go as I mentioned on the first page of this thread.

 

[Russ265]

Russ, I'm surprised at your Purple/Brown acro assessment. In my experience that purple brown burnt look is from high nutrients. I've seen this in my own tank and in my friends tanks. Around 6 months ago I had a tank "funk" I just could not figure out. Most people told me to feed more, but my gut told me my tank was high in nutrients. Even with this, my numbers suggested otherwise. At the time I was running a fuge full of chaeto and my numbers were 0 nitrate and 0.03 phos, perfect right?

The kicker for me was that my chaeto was flourishing, there was no algae in the tank. The chaeto was masking the relative nutrient levels in the tank. So great numbers, no algae, acros should look great right? Wrong.....

Here are some examples of the "burnt" look I refer to. Some STN, overall ragged, dark, greyish tone, loss of luster. Again, numbers were PERFECT according to tests.....I will also post right after some recovery pics. All I did was put the tank on an extreme diet and started carbon dosing. No more additives, just fed the fish. After a couple of months most pieces made a great recovery, some are still recovering....

Tricolor, lackluster, greyish tone......


Recovered and growing...



Sunny-X mille, lackluster, just crappy looking....


This pic was at the start of recovery, looks amazing today...



Green Table, burnt tips, STN, nasty....


Mostly Recovered....



This was a beautiful blue tort. Got RAVAGED!


Recovering...you should see it today!


Slimer. Also ravaged. Thought I was going to lose it....


Sorry about the blue but recovered....



Blue Matrix out of focus, and sunset monti just angry.....


Recovered, and you can see the recovered monti in a pic above.....


Ragged Mirabilis.....


Still recovering....




This piece was taken from a friends tank that was in my opinion having "nutrient issues". His tests said otherwise.....

I call it the "turdcake"....burnt, purply brown, dark just looks like its been living in toilet water....


Last weekend....



I can go on and on and on and on!


Long story short, after the extreme diet my tank went ULNS and then the paling began. Ever since then, its been an up and down but thankfully nothing extreme. Still trying to reach equilibrium as far as nutrients go as I mentioned on the first page of this thread.

i see a couple corals that appear paleish. some browned.

i think a bunch of us are seeing the opposite effects.

also you made nitrates the limiting nutrient. remember no3>po4.

nothing perfect with a phosphate dominant system at all.

 

[rovster]

I guess the point of my post was beware of number chasing. Look at your dang corals people. I am currently dosing sodium nitrate fwiw....

 

[Russ265]

this accidentally reposted... deleted

 

[rovster]

Forgot to mention, I did start nitrate dosing during the recovery lol. Phos never measured above 0.04.....

So my pics prove your point exactly lol....sorry got side tracked lol