Household cleaner chemical removal

[mfollen]

Hey reefers

I’m losing 2-3 acros each day to STN after cleaning my nearby bathroom with household cleaner. I believe some chemicals may have found their way to the tank.

I couldn’t find a solid answer researching. But aside from water changes, does anyone know the best media to remove chemicals?
I have some carbon and chemipure blue running.

But each day, they continue to go. Today was the orange passion and a long tenured granulosa.
I’m hoping to end this tomorrow with a decent water change.
It’s a 250-300 gallon system, so its difficult to do large water changes.

Thanks everyone!

 

[fishguy242]

Ammonia pad, carbon pad along with both already using , metazorb ?
How are params ? any changes since happened ?

 

[taricha]

I don't really like the "cleaner from another room" theory of coral loss. I have a hard time coming up with a likely cleaner ingredient that could have come over in large enough amounts to be that harmful. (I could be wrong, of course.)
But I'd focus on other possibilities if it were me.

 

[GlassMunky]

You could try some Polyfilter and see if it changes color at all. If so it would tell you an idea of what it pulled out.

But I’m kind of with Taricha here, I don’t think it was the cleaning of a bathroom.
Threads like this happen from time to time but nobody ever finds an answer.

And with how many people still have the houses cleaned all the time without issues it really makes me think it’s something else (not that we may ever know what that is)

 

[mfollen]

Thank you very much.

Ingredients would be:
Water, Decyl Glucoside,Polysorbate 20, Betula Alba (Birch) Bark Extract, Citrus Limon (Lemon) Peel Oil, Abies Alba (Fir) Leaf Oil, Cymbopogon Schoenanthus (Lemongrass) Oil, Fragrance, Sodium Citrate, Glycerin, Sodium Methyl 2-Sulfolaurate, Citric Acid, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate, Sodium Sulfate, PEG-5 Cocoate, Methylisothiazolinone, Benzisothiazolinone.

I know chemipure blue can absorb dissolved wastes, odors, phenols, toxins, medications, and even phosphates and silicates.
Metazorb says it can remove Aluminum, Cadmium, Cerium, Cobalt, Copper, Dysprosium, Erbium, Europium, Gadolinium, Gold, Holmium, Iron, Lanthanum, Lead, Lutetium, Manganese, Mercury, Neodymium, Nickel, Samarium, Scandium, Selenium, Silver, Terbium, Ytterbium, Yttrium, Zinc.

I wonder though about any of the potential chemicals in the listed ingredients.
If those get in, how could they be removed?

Thank you very much

 

[GlassMunky]

Thank you very much.

Ingredients would be:
Water, Decyl Glucoside,Polysorbate 20, Betula Alba (Birch) Bark Extract, Citrus Limon (Lemon) Peel Oil, Abies Alba (Fir) Leaf Oil, Cymbopogon Schoenanthus (Lemongrass) Oil, Fragrance, Sodium Citrate, Glycerin, Sodium Methyl 2-Sulfolaurate, Citric Acid, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate, Sodium Sulfate, PEG-5 Cocoate, Methylisothiazolinone, Benzisothiazolinone.

I know chemipure blue can absorb dissolved wastes, odors, phenols, toxins, medications, and even phosphates and silicates.
Metazorb says it can remove Aluminum, Cadmium, Cerium, Cobalt, Copper, Dysprosium, Erbium, Europium, Gadolinium, Gold, Holmium, Iron, Lanthanum, Lead, Lutetium, Manganese, Mercury, Neodymium, Nickel, Samarium, Scandium, Selenium, Silver, Terbium, Ytterbium, Yttrium, Zinc.

I wonder though about any of the potential chemicals in the listed ingredients.
If those get in, how could they be removed?

Thank you very much

As I said you could try this and see if it changes color

Poly Filter Aquarium Filter

The POLY-FILTER is for filtering and purifying both fresh and salt water aquariums. It is a formulation of a special patented material bonded to a synthetic matrix. By means of a unique proprietary process, the POLY-FILTER is made impervious to salt and is also organic loving to certain...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

But in reality there’s probably not a way to target just the chems in the cleaning product.


You’d have to do water changes to dilute the issue. (I still don’t think it’s from the cleaner)

 

[mfollen]

Otherwise my salinity is close.. 1.0257
Phosphate and nitrate have been stable
.086 po4
9.3 no3

The tank feed input and dosing has been stable.

I sent an ICP out yesterday, so I can report on that when I receive the results.

Worth noting, it is not necessarily true RTN.
It is the brown jelly like disease but on the acros.
Essentially the brown jelly forms around the tissue, engulfing the acro over quick time.
Then the next day it will appear on another.

I do have an aquabiomics test I can send out before the water change today.

Considering it’s consistently the brown jelly type disease, perhaps if it continues after the water change I consider an alternative approach.

I am open to ALL ideas here to resolve this ASAP as I have some rare acros in here I want to grow out to bring into circulation.

Thank you everyone!!!!

 

[GlassMunky]

Brown jelly disease doesn’t affect SPS it’s an LPS thing (usually euphyllia)



Sounds like there’s some kind of nasty bacterial infection or something else going on in the tank.

You could try the AB test, but personally, I don’t have any trust or faith in them at all.
I know tons of people here DO trust them, but I once sent in the exact same water sample to them in 2 different test vials and got back wildly different results. Which to me, means your tests are not repeatable and therefor not valid

But that’s just my experience using them. YMMV

 

[mfollen]

Agreed, and the AB test is just what is floating in the water column and on a surface mostly. Not the coral holobiont or on the coral.

My hope is to dilute whatever is the aggravating problem.
But it is a brown jelly type growth that rapidly takes up the acros. I’ve seen this once before years ago.

If I can’t resolve via water changes and mechanical filtration, it may be time for another measure.

Open to all ideas though! Thank you everyone.

 

[fishguy242]

I've seen this happen before , like BJD in acro's ,but only in fresh imports...
can you get us some pics of affected coral ?

 

[mfollen]

I wish I did.
If it happens again I will certainly take some pictures. But this is definitely not standard RTN.

 

[mfollen]

Ughhh… here you go.. the carbon and chemipure is not helping

 

[taricha]

It could indeed be brown jelly disease just like we see in euphyllia....

Apparently, the same arcobacter species that is the central character of this thread [about the typical brown jelly disease in euphyllia] is also a likely cause behind Brown Jelly in goniopora, and RTN in millepora. Would not have guessed that these diseases in these different corals are the same disease - but it seems at least likely that they can all be caused by the exact same pathogen. See vid below.

Dr. Eli Meyer from AquaBiomics and Dr. Andrew Bouwma (29:30 - 31:45 in video)

 

[fishguy242]

It could indeed be brown jelly disease just like we see in euphyllia....

would you recommend cipro ?

 

[mfollen]

I will say I have been dosing probiotics for the last couple months, and this recent issue has arisen following of a good 3-6 month period of healthy acros. I have not dosed an antibiotic in the system ever.

I have had arcobacter and SCTLD in the system throughout this time though from earlier aquabiomics data.

Perhaps for some reason the arcobacter is on the rise and engulfing some acros for whatever reason/trigger?

 

[mfollen]

One last note
There was a temp increase from 75 - 75.5 or so typical temp to 79 as well. And it’s been a long while since the tank has been at that temp..

 

[taricha]

would you recommend cipro ?

I'm not a fan of antibiotics on corals generally.
But we have a clear bacterial pathogen that shows symptoms like Brown Jelly... (pic in post 12)
And we have a system with the known pathogen of brown jelly disease arcobacter detected in the system (post 15).
And we have a protocol for use of an antibiotic to target the pathogen present (Aquabiomics thread)

This would seem to clear even a pretty high bar of justification for use of antibiotics.
(Personally, since people have found that oxolinic acid has similar antibiotic activity against brown jelly / coral pathogens as cipro and is already used in koi fish and is not a human-use antibiotic, I'd go that way.)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just as an fyi, there are no metals of any kind coming from vapors. Droplets in the air can carry them, but cleaners are not generally a source of toxic metals anyway.

I agree that organic compounds in the air are not likely a concern, but GAC is what I'd use if I did want to bind components of things like lemon peel oil.

 

[mfollen]

Wow thank you very much @Randy Holmes-Farley & @taricha
After further research and taking in your insight, and after doing a water change yesterday. Here’s what I am thinking.

Some stress event occurred. Whether it was a 3-4 degree temperature increase to levels the tank has not experienced for at least 6 months or so (still just 78.8 degrees), or something related to the cleaner, the pathogenic event started, resulting in the sporadic disease state appearing from coral to coral.

Interesting this will impact the same species/strain on one colony, while a different colony of the same species/strain in the same conditions is looking flawless on the other side of the tank.
All other coral are looking fantastic. Goniopora, euphyllia, even slower growing fussy zoanthids. And the unaffected acropora continue to look great.

Obviously whatever the stressor event was, the disbiotic state appears to spread. Infecting one to two acropora (acro only with brown jelly) a day over the past 4 days or so.

At this point, I was going to see how the water change impacts the situation before utilizing an antibiotic.
I will see how things go today. But I am considering dosing the cipro tonight to extinguish this pathogenic state that appears to be spreading to what appears to be healthy coral after that stress event.

If I didn’t have some acropora that I can’t risk losing, I would wait longer to see how the water change helps. But considering that the chemipure blue, purigen and carbon has not helped. I do not think the water change will change the situation.

 

[mfollen]

Ok well I decided to wait and do one thing at a time. Something I’ve historically had troubles doing in resolving mysterious acro issues ha

I did a 15% or so water change on Friday. The next day I just sat on my hands and observed.
No more jelly resumed the next day, as it did the following 4-5 days.

On Sunday, after realizing this may have stablized or diluted the issue I decided to do another 15% water change.
Not one case of jelly (yet, knock on wood) since then.
I sent an aquabiomics test last week as well in addition to the ICP.

At this point I think it was either the chemical cleaners somehow drifting into the system, a 3-4 temp increase over a day or two, or a random trace issue I would see soon in the ICP test.
I do believe it was some stress event that triggered the pathogenic disease state that appeared to spread.

I will continue to monitor and will provide updates here for anyone curious.

Thank you everyone for your help..