How do I frag zoas without killing myself?

[KrisReef]

He’s doing great! He’s a big boy now and he says hello!

I’m visiting with my nephew in Florida. He’s a big boy too. He spit out his fondue onto the floor last night at the restaurant my daughter and son in law chose.
I told her that he had exquisite taste and we had a good time laughing. Uncle sounds younger than grandpa, so I decided to be called “Uncle Kris”.
Hewbie is looking happy.

 

[Tavero]

A lot of semi useful advice here from reefers who just started posting but didn't ask the most important question.
What kind of zoanthids are we talking about? Zoanthus or Palythoa. Do you know the name? A picture would be helpful.

For the majority of zoanthus I don't even wear gloves and safety glasses anymore, but if we are talking about something like Palythoa Grandis, I wouldn't frag these even with full safety gear on (mask+gloves+glasses)

 

[Captain-Barnacle]

Take no chances

 

[AydenLincoln]

A lot of semi useful advice here from reefers who just started posting but didn't ask the most important question.
What kind of zoanthids are we talking about? Zoanthus or Palythoa. Do you know the name? A picture would be helpful.

For the majority of zoanthus I don't even wear gloves and safety glasses anymore, but if we are talking about something like Palythoa Grandis, I wouldn't frag these even with full safety gear on (mask+gloves+glasses)

Whatever these are!

 

[Tavero]

Whatever these are!

You'll be fine. Just use some gloves and common sense.
They don't belong to the genus that's responsible for regularly poisoning reefers.

 

[reef guy 56]

Zoa toxins only exist when the ph 7. Farg in hard water. With basic safety precautions and gear.

 

[Macsreefs]

I have some zoas that have happily encrusted themselves to a frag rack and are spreading. How do I frag them without poisoning myself? I get so nervous with them and the possibility of palytoxin which is why I have never touched them. I’ve never fragged any corals either and I have mushrooms exploding all over my tank. I know the risks are small/unlikely but it can happen? If palytoxin is released underwater isn’t that fine? From my understanding it’s only if it gets airborne correct me if I’m wrong?

I have a buddy that recently had Zoas encrusting on two separate rocks that were touching and ending up spreading across both rocks… one day doing tank maintenance he moved the rock causing the zoas to tear/rip…. Within 48 hours the palytoxins nuked his tank…. Don’t know if it was the certain species of zoa or some other anomaly… just food for thought.

 

[tzabor10]

WWC suggested that you place zoas on small pebbles. Then as they spread, remove the pebbles to frag

 

[twentyleagues]

I have a buddy that recently had Zoas encrusting on two separate rocks that were touching and ending up spreading across both rocks… one day doing tank maintenance he moved the rock causing the zoas to tear/rip…. Within 48 hours the palytoxins nuked his tank…. Don’t know if it was the certain species of zoa or some other anomaly… just food for thought.

Doubtful, probably the release of ammonia or hydrogen sulfide from moving the rocks.

 

[The_Paradox]

I have a buddy that recently had Zoas encrusting on two separate rocks that were touching and ending up spreading across both rocks… one day doing tank maintenance he moved the rock causing the zoas to tear/rip…. Within 48 hours the palytoxins nuked his tank…. Don’t know if it was the certain species of zoa or some other anomaly… just food for thought.

I’d bet a biggie combo meal it from disturbing the sand or something else he did during maintenance. Every couple months a year I scrub a group of palys back with a wire brush. Nothing has ever reacted that I can see. Everything in your tank is exposed to palytoxin on a regular basis. Not up on the subject but as of a few years ago the only confirmed deaths in humans was from ingestion. I believe someone ate a crab or fish that was chockers full of it and someone else ate palys because… TikTok?

 

[twentyleagues]

This paly toxin thing has gotten ridiculous. I have grown huge colonies of P. grandis nothing in the tank was affected, I have fragged them I'm still here (unfortunate for some). When dealing with your reef tank, Dont drink the water, dont lick, eat, otherwise ingest rocks sand or corals, If you have a cut or wound that could be submerged in your tank take precautions or wait for it to heal, Be careful when handling rocks and coral or fish these all can be sharp and cause injury which can become infected. The amount of bacteria in and on stuff in the tank under normal circumstances is a much larger issue then palytoxin and causes more issues every year.

Whats the take away here? Be careful, Use precautions, Dont do dumb stuff (i'm looking at you coral licker!).

 

[carol3]

Julian Sprung gave a talk at Reef-A-Palooza Orlando in 2015 and again at a MACNA conference that same year about his own experience with palytoxin and what it did to the tank, it's on youtube. It's THE word from THE man himself!!

 

[twentyleagues]

Julian Sprung gave a talk at Reef-A-Palooza Orlando in 2015 and again at a MACNA conference that same year about his own experience with palytoxin and what it did to the tank, it's on youtube. It's THE word from THE man himself!!

Oh dont get me wrong Palytoxin is dangerous/deadly. I dont think its that easy to poison yourself with is all. I mean if it was I'd probably been dead in the early 2000s. I am guessing with the amount of things corals, inverts, fish that have it in or on them that we keep finding out about that it effects things in our tanks not much if at all.

 

[The_Paradox]

Oh dont get me wrong Palytoxin is dangerous/deadly. I dont think its that easy to poison yourself with is all. I mean if it was I'd probably been dead in the early 2000s. I am guessing with the amount of things corals, inverts, fish that have it in or on them that we keep finding out about that it effects things in our tanks much if at all.

You mean peanuts kill a thousand times more people each year on average? Fun fact, there have been more confirmed cases of someone dying while being actively mauled by a bear and struck by lightning at the same time.

 

[carol3]

Oh dont get me wrong Palytoxin is dangerous/deadly. I dont think its that easy to poison yourself with is all. I mean if it was I'd probably been dead in the early 2000s. I am guessing with the amount of things corals, inverts, fish that have it in or on them that we keep finding out about that it effects things in our tanks not much if at all.

I haven't seen Julian's video for a while now but if I remember correctly he didn't even frag the zoas, he just moved them from one tank to the next, they didn't like it. Can it happen to you? YES. Will it happen to you at some point? Who knows. The people that have had it happen to them certainly weren't expecting it, kind of like a car wreck...it's smart to be careful and take precautions.

 

[carol3]

You mean peanuts kill a thousand times more people each year on average? Fun fact, there have been more confirmed cases of someone dying while being actively mauled by a bear and struck by lightning at the same time.

It isn't as much about dying ( although that can happen), it's about getting very, very sick and the possibility of crashing your tank. It is just a risk, but it IS a real risk and it DOES happen. If you don't want to take precautions then you certainly don't have to.

 

[The_Paradox]

It isn't as much about dying ( although that can happen), it's about getting very, very sick and the possibility of crashing your tank. It is just a risk, but it IS a real risk and it DOES happen. If you don't want to take precautions then you certainly don't have to.

I get risk mitigation but when it comes to palytoxin it’s way down on my list. Electrocution and bacterial infection are magnitudes higher. No one thinks twice about throwing AC mains into salt water but omfgcall911 if an urchin climbs over their zoas. Just seems disproportionate.

 

[BeanAnimal]

For the most part, zoas are not nearly the hazard that they're presented as. It's not even certain that all of them contain palytoxin. And even among those that do house palytoxin, getting a dose of the poison is actually rather difficult.

I think that is extremely poor information to convey. Palytoxin is nothing to mess around with and there are plenty of different zoas and palythoa that contain it, some in large amounts. If you don't know which do (and there is no way to easily know), then they should ALL be treated with the same respect. PERIOD. You life, that of your family members and pets is a stake.

That's not to say there's no risk, which is why those who are saying you should use hand & eye protection are correct. But most of the big zoa-related incidents come when someone does something stupid, like flash-boil zoas and inhale the resulting vapors. Don't boil them, don't get their juices in your mucous membranes or into an open cut.

That is not the case. Plenty of dead dogs, people who have lost their eyesight and been in the ICU for simply coming in contact would argue differently.

 

[encrustingacro]

From what I know, you should be fine fragging Zoanthids; palytoxin production is limited to only a few species of Palythoa.

 

[BeanAnimal]

A lot of semi useful advice here from reefers who just started posting but didn't ask the most important question.
What kind of zoanthids are we talking about? Zoanthus or Palythoa. Do you know the name? A picture would be helpful.

Not really - who/what is going to positively identify and quantify the palytoxin danger with certainty?? I wouldn't trust you or anybody else, given the lack of real research on the topic.

but if we are talking about something like Palythoa Grandis, I wouldn't frag these even with full safety gear on (mask+gloves+glasses)

Just the odor of them if disturbed in my tank makes me sick. I have attempted to remove them several times, but just a few cells and they grow back. Nasty stuff.