I need yelp with sand sifting yellow sea cucumbers.

[Ron Primas]

Hi Everyone! Happy Holidays!!! I need advice please. In addition to my pico reef. I have an 8 gallon lagoon/macroalgae/dwarf seahorse tank that has a pair of dwarf seahorses, tons of live mysid, amphipods and copepods. All of which are thriving. It's a 7 year old established tank. My quandary is that I also love those Florida yellow sand sifting sea cucumbers. I had one once that lasted about a year. I can't seem to keep them alive very long now. The parameters of the tank are an sg of 1.026, a pH of 8.3/4, phosphorus of 26-42 ppb, nitrates between 2-5, 0 ammonia & nitrites, photoperiod of 14 hours with an AI Prime HD with moonlight, hydor 300 gph pump. I feed the sandbed daily with algae pellets and debride the macro biweekly for nutrient export. Any advice on what else I can do to maximize lifespan of these wonderful creatures?
Thanks and Happy Holidays!

 

[Timfish]

A bigger tank. I typically have only one per 100 gallons and have them live for years if not decades without having to feed them directly. This is purely guess work but check to see if your algae pellets have grain products if so try eliminating any non-marine sourced ingredients from their diet.

 

[Ron Primas]

A bigger tank. I typically have only one per 100 gallons and have them live for years if not decades without having to feed them directly. This is purely guess work but check to see if your algae pellets have grain products if so try eliminating any non-marine sourced ingredients from their diet.

Thanks. Should I try regular protein based pellets?

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

How big are the pellets?

Also, some general feeding info:

With regards to the sediment feeding cucumbers, as mentioned, you can ghost feed the tank and they'll do just fine on that. For example, the Chocolate Chip Sea Cucumber (Isostichopus badionotus) has been bred in captivity on the following diets*:
"Two feeding protocols were tested: In the first year, the broodstock were fed with commercial tilapia and rabbit feed which was ground, supplemented with Spirulina powder, and blended with disinfected beach sand (30g food/kg sand). In the second year, the food was changed to a mixture of ground Ulva sp., Sargassum sp., and Macrocystis sp. meals (Baja Kelp, Ensenanada, B.C., Mexico) blended with disinfected beach sand (30g algae mixture/kg sand). The food was changed every third day to prevent fungus formation."

I don't remember the other species I've looked at at the moment, but, generally speaking, sand sifting sea cucumbers are not picky about what they eat (though the food likely needs to be relatively decently sized so as to fit in with the sediment they're sifting - for example, the food they fed to the juvenile sea cucumbers when they reached 3 cm in the study above was sieved 55 at microns). Some easy foods you could offer that should work even for smaller cucumber species would be things like TDO Chromaboost Type A and Spirulina powder like used in the study I referenced.

I've seen a removable dish of sand mixed with food used successfully in sea cucumber aquaculture,

Edit: The study referenced in the quote above:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jwas.12061

 

[Timfish]

Thanks. Should I try regular protein based pellets?

I don't know as I've never kept any by directly feeding it. But that small a tank seems it's likely they're not getting enough to eat (albiet shipping and acclimating stress is going to play a factor). Since sand sifting cucumbers are feeding off the detritus, microbial stuff and algae in the sand I would start with making sure anything I feed them is going to be something they would normally run into in their environment.

 

[Ron Primas]

A bigger tank. I typically have only one per 100 gallons and have them live for years if not decades without having to feed them directly. This is purely guess work but check to see if your algae pellets have grain products if so try eliminating any non-marine sourced ingredients from their diet.

Tim. You are indeed correct. I have been feeding the cucumber this: https://www.nyos.info/en/fish-feed/bio-softfutter/true-algae#technische-details
It does contain wheat. Do you have any suggestions for a pure spirulina pellet without anything added? Thank you again!
Ron

 

[Ron Primas]

I don't know as I've never kept any by directly feeding it. But that small a tank seems it's likely they're not getting enough to eat (albiet shipping and acclimating stress is going to play a factor). Since sand sifting cucumbers are feeding off the detritus, microbial stuff and algae in the sand I would start with making sure anything I feed them is going to be something they would normally run into in their environment.

It is a dirty bottom refugium tank with lots of detritus after feeding the pods daily. Not sure why it isn't eating. It had a ravenous appetite when I got it 2 weeks ago and kept eating everything off of the macroalgae leaves and glass but not much on the bottom.

 

[Ron Primas]

How big are the pellets?

Also, some general feeding info:

Thank you so much!

 

[Ron Primas]

Thank you so much!

The pellets are actually small granles

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

The pellets are actually small granles

Yeah, looking at the listed pellet size, they say they're 0.9-1.5mm (900-1,500 microns) - I'd guess that's probably substantially larger than they'd prefer; I'd try to get the food in the ~100-500 micron range, preferably closer to 50-200 microns (especially if the cuke isn't full grown). I know foods in that size can be hard to come by - Otohime and TDO Chromaboost offer pellets in that general range, and they're amongst the best pellet feeds on the market (no pellets on the market for hobbyists are as good as fresh food or a high quality frozen food).

I don't know the Florida Sea Cucumber's (Holothuria floridana's) preferred food size, but most other species in the genus prefer feeds that range from ~60-200 microns, with a handful of exceptions that prefer either medium-small foods (~200-600 microns) or huge foods (~2,000-3,500 microns).*

It does contain wheat. Do you have any suggestions for a pure spirulina pellet without anything added?

Pretty much every pellet on the market will contain grains of some variety (almost always to act as a binding agent to hold the pellets together; sometimes also to provide enough calories/energy to make the food an efficient feed) - if used in small enough quantities, it's not really an issue, but when there's too much grain (too many carbohydrates) it can cause some nutrition issues.

For the spirulina, you can buy spirulina powder which will probably be closer to the right size for the cuke.

*Source:

Sophistication in a seemingly simple creature: a review of wild holothurian nutrition in marine ecosystems

Holothurians are marine invertebrates that are among the most widespread benthic megafauna communities by both biomass and abundance in shallow‐water and deep‐sea ecosystems, their functions supporting important ecological services worldwide. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Ron Primas]

Yeah, looking at the listed pellet size, they say they're 0.9-1.5mm (900-1,500 microns) - I'd guess that's probably substantially larger than they'd prefer; I'd try to get the food in the ~100-500 micron range, preferably closer to 50-200 microns (especially if the cuke isn't full grown). I know foods in that size can be hard to come by - Otohime and TDO Chromaboost offer pellets in that general range, and they're amongst the best pellet feeds on the market (no pellets on the market for hobbyists are as good as fresh food or a high quality frozen food).

I don't know the Florida Sea Cucumber's (Holothuria floridana's) preferred food size, but most other species in the genus prefer feeds that range from ~60-200 microns, with a handful of exceptions that prefer either medium-small foods (~200-600 microns) or huge foods (~2,000-3,500 microns).*

Pretty much every pellet on the market will contain grains of some variety (almost always to act as a binding agent to hold the pellets together; sometimes also to provide enough calories/energy to make the food an efficient feed) - if used in small enough quantities, it's not really an issue, but when there's too much grain (too many carbohydrates) it can cause some nutrition issues.

For the spirulina, you can buy spirulina powder which will probably be closer to the right size for the cuke.

*Source:

Sophistication in a seemingly simple creature: a review of wild holothurian nutrition in marine ecosystems

Holothurians are marine invertebrates that are among the most widespread benthic megafauna communities by both biomass and abundance in shallow‐water and deep‐sea ecosystems, their functions supporting important ecological services worldwide. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thank you so much for this. I do pulverize my pellets however. Really appreciate everything. I am still unsure if the lack of food only that causes their rapid demise. Not sure if a nitrate level of 5 ppm is too much.

 

[Timfish]

It is a dirty bottom refugium tank with lots of detritus after feeding the pods daily. Not sure why it isn't eating. It had a ravenous appetite when I got it 2 weeks ago and kept eating everything off of the macroalgae leaves and glass but not much on the bottom.

Maybe add sand? I see my cucumbers feeding off the sand then move up onto the glass but only momentarily before moving back to the sand. Which seems to suggest some kind of tactile response or feedback is needed for themto decide where to feed.

Try powedered algae or spirulina health food products.

 

[Ron Primas]

Maybe add sand? I see my cucumbers feeding off the sand then move up onto the glass but only momentarily before moving back to the sand. Which seems to suggest some kind of tactile response or feedback is needed for themto decide where to feed.

Try powedered algae or spirulina health food products.

Here are some photos of my sandbed. As you can see, it's quite thick.
Thanks again.
Unfortunately, this cucumber which was very active has now been in the same place for 2 days. I fear it's demise now.

 

[Timfish]

OK, I see I read "dirty bottom" as no sand Are you doing regular water changes and have you tried a water change to see if that changes the behavior of your cucumber? What happens if you gently siphon some of teh detritus off the sand and gently stir the sand (being careful to not disturb your sea grass)?

 

[Ron Primas]

So. Great news! I increased tank temp to 76 degrees and decreased to a s.g. of 1.024/5, started feeding

Hatching Coral Food Amphipod Food from RUSALTY​

along with spirulina powder and the usual AlgaeBarn OceanMagik phyto and after 2 weeks of shrinking and not moving, it's now on the prowl for food and is eating. I hope this may help others.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

increased tank temp to 76 degrees and decreased to a s.g. of 1.024/5, started feeding

What was the tank temp before?

 

[Ron Primas]

What was the tank temp before?

76

 

[jda]

I would find it a new home. While this is progress, I doubt that there is enough actual food in there to sustain it. Detritus is not food. I have one of those in a 2x8 foot footprint tank and it does well and even split once, but that seems like it is about right for the pair. I would not want them in any smaller of a tank.

Mine will poop out an area of sand the size of mason jar lid every few days, so if you are not seeing these piles, they are not likely eating very well.

 

[Ron Primas]

I would find it a new home. While this is progress, I doubt that there is enough actual food in there to sustain it. Detritus is not food. I have one of those in a 2x8 foot footprint tank and it does well and even split once, but that seems like it is about right for the pair. I would not want them in any smaller of a tank.

Mine will poop out an area of sand the size of mason jar lid every few days, so if you are not seeing these piles, they are not likely eating very well.

Ama! How big is yours? Mine is an inch.

 

[jda]

They are like 4 inches.