Introducing biodiversity without live rock, sand

[Magnapinna]

1 - Rock can be easily broken with a hammer
2 - it only takes a half cup (or less) of sand
I would find another LFS


Or simply a local reef club, or another local reefer to grab some sand or rubble from.


Edit: see all of this already mentioned.

Yes, I know this. Tried to reason that with them but they just seemed frustrated with me and continued to refuse. I'd find another LFS if getting there through Atlanta traffic wasn't a literal fight to the death lol

 

[Magnapinna]

This might be exactly what you are looking for.

I actually did look at this, but haven't seen it in stock for some time.

 

[kevgib67]

I actually did look at this, but haven't seen it in stock for some time.

I would contact the company, this seems like exactly what you’re looking for. Perhaps it’s seasonal?

 

[Tired]

That's what I thought --- so it brings back the same question though, how do I get the algae without having to buy loads of different cultures?

Oh, that part's easy. It'll show up on its own. Might take longer, but it'll arrive... somehow. Presumably via spores in the air. You can speed it up by adding anything that already has algae, of course. Maybe a single hermit- you can feed it regular fish food until algae grows.

 

[Magnapinna]

Oh, that part's easy. It'll show up on its own. Might take longer, but it'll arrive... somehow. Presumably via spores in the air. You can speed it up by adding anything that already has algae, of course. Maybe a single hermit- you can feed it regular fish food until algae grows.

Awesome, thanks. There look to be some brown patches on my rock but I don't know if it was there before, and it's kind of hard to see against the coloration. I have a brackish tank with lots of brown stuff on the rock but I haven't taken a sample yet to know what it is, looks like diatoms. There are some other critters in there too --- copepods and worms and maybe some rotifers. Any shot they could be acclimated to the higher salinity?

 

[PotatoPig]

That's what I thought --- so it brings back the same question though, how do I get the algae without having to buy loads of different cultures?

It sounds like your tank is cycled, at least for the purposes of adding fish.

What fish do you plan to add?

The “biodiversity” you’ll see mentioned is about folks trying to achieve a varied biome to control nutrients, consume waste, provide food species for some tank inhabitants, and tackle various types of algae.

This is beneficial for a mature tank, but not necessary for your initial inhabitants - fish and basic inverts.

Add your fish, then algae will come along soon enough (assuming you have tank lights), and then worry about adding a CUC, that will bring in a more varied microbiome. Then when things settle a bit add corals.

 

[Magnapinna]

I would contact the company, this seems like exactly what you’re looking for. Perhaps it’s seasonal?

Looks like they're apparently having problems with reliable shipments and clean samples. They uploaded a letter about it to their website: https://aquabiomics.com/why-is-the-live-reef-rubble-out-of-stock

 

[Tired]

I would suspect most if not all of them won't transfer over, sadly. They're also some of the easiest things to get- you'll probably have some arrive in the water containing whatever other livestock you wind up with.

Oh, and you might know this already, but you should expect to have an ugly stage at some point. Loads of algae on all the new surfaces. Looks bad if you don't like algae, but it's harmless to fish, largely harmless to corals as long as you keep it off them, and will sort itself out if given time, appropriate nutrient levels (not zero!), and a good cleanup crew. Once that shows up, it's time for snails.

 

[Spare time]

It was the owner. They also advertised the Liferock to me as live rock. I knew what I was buying wasn't live rock but they would have had me believe that. Maybe it's for the best. Seems like they always have a tank or two 'under observation', and I know it's not QT because it's never the same one. Also sold me saltwater that may as well have been brackish... 1.019 at 70*F and it had mud and dog hair in the bottom. Ugh.

Anyways, rant aside --- I was under the impression it wasn't safe to add any animals until the microbiome is already established? Otherwise I would have started stocking already. Reading nitrates and no ammonia so I think it's cycled, but I'm not sure if I should buy a different brand of tests to double check (mine are API).

You can add anything to the tank once its up and running and you've added cycling bacteria. Albeit, some things won't do well without additional things added (like copepods, for example)

 

[Magnapinna]

It sounds like your tank is cycled, at least for the purposes of adding fish.

What fish do you plan to add?

The “biodiversity” you’ll see mentioned is about folks trying to achieve a varied biome to control nutrients, consume waste, provide food species for some tank inhabitants, and tackle various types of algae.

This is beneficial for a mature tank, but not necessary for your initial inhabitants - fish and basic inverts.

Add your fish, then algae will come along soon enough (assuming you have tank lights), and then worry about adding a CUC, that will bring in a more varied microbiome. Then when things settle a bit add corals.

Thanks, I've seen conflicting info but wanted to err on the side of caution. Have been told adding fish to a dry rock setup is begging for disease outbreaks which I'd rather be patient than chance. I'm honestly still debating what fish to add. Maybe a court jester goby or a neon. Would like an ocellaris clown but not sure it'd fit in a 10gal (although I'm not sure any of these options would).

 

[Magnapinna]

I would suspect most if not all of them won't transfer over, sadly. They're also some of the easiest things to get- you'll probably have some arrive in the water containing whatever other livestock you wind up with.

Oh, and you might know this already, but you should expect to have an ugly stage at some point. Loads of algae on all the new surfaces. Looks bad if you don't like algae, but it's harmless to fish, largely harmless to corals as long as you keep it off them, and will sort itself out if given time, appropriate nutrient levels (not zero!), and a good cleanup crew. Once that shows up, it's time for snails.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I've never been opposed to algae. Makes for some awesome microscope samples, huge concentrations of microbial life. At least that's been my experience with freshwater algae.

 

[Magnapinna]

You can add anything to the tank once its up and running and you've added cycling bacteria. Albeit, some things won't do well without additional things added (like copepods, for example)

Do I still need to add bottled bacteria if my cycle seems okay? Again, I've only used API tests so I don't actually know for sure if the tank is cycled. Just haven't gotten around to ordering new tests yet. But I've been reading 0 ammonia and >0 nitrates for a couple weeks. Supposedly the Liferock and Ocean Direct help cycle faster but I don't know if this is just a marketing gimmick.

 

[saltcats]

Court jester goby is a sand sifter and feeds on micro life in the sand bed; in a newly set up tank I think a captive bred one would be the best option since that'll most likely eat provided foods.

 

[Magnapinna]

Court jester goby is a sand sifter and feeds on micro life in the sand bed; in a newly set up tank I think a captive bred one would be the best option since that'll most likely eat provided foods.

I prefer CB when possible anyways, but I'd rather not risk it until the tank is more stable --- "most likely" isn't enough for me. I also thought about a tailspot blenny. Is 10 gallons really suitable? LFS says 30+ gallons for an individual of either species, as well as for a single neon. So much conflicting info!

 

[Nick711]

IPSF - can do a 9/$99 (shipped) mix & match. Make sure to include wonder mud & live sand activator

 

[Spare time]

Do I still need to add bottled bacteria if my cycle seems okay? Again, I've only used API tests so I don't actually know for sure if the tank is cycled. Just haven't gotten around to ordering new tests yet. But I've been reading 0 ammonia and >0 nitrates for a couple weeks. Supposedly the Liferock and Ocean Direct help cycle faster but I don't know if this is just a marketing gimmick.

The ocean direct probably did it. Did you add some ammonia?

 

[Kiui1849]

10 gallon nano, 3-4wks old, started with 10lbs CaribSea Life Rock and 10lbs Ocean Direct sand. My LFS won't sell me live rock on account of the pieces won't fit in my tank (some of them definitely would have, but they wouldn't hear it). They won't sell me live sand either for reasons they won't really specify. I only want some rubble or something to seed the tank with so I really can't justify the cost of online purchase+shipping. Wondering what I can do to get some biodiversity going as the next closest LFS is a ~4hr round trip on a good traffic day

At one point these guys were doing like 50 cents to a dollar per lb sale, regular price is 1.75 per lb. I forgot how much shipping is but I didn't pay more than 15$ for 6 lbs. I also live in the middle of no where and the nearest LFS is 4 hours away so I thought it was a pretty decent deal.

Live Ocean Sand

www.google.com

 

[Tired]

Ah, yes, IPSF- where you can get 6 bristleworms for $20. I've heard good things about them, but their prices for things you're likely to get free on coral frags are pretty silly.

Court jester gobies sift sand and pick at algae and copepods. They're definitely best in an established tank with a lot of things to pick at. A neon goby would be an excellent choice- they're hardy, colorful, and fun to watch. They do only live a couple years, though.

A clownfish would be fine in terms of its own need for space, they're not super active, but they do get aggressive as they mature. There might not be enough room for anything else in there with it.

My pick for a 10gal would be a small shrimpgoby like a yasha haze, Wheeler's, or antenna goby, plus a candycane pistol shrimp. Amazing symbiotic pair, great fun to watch, and not aggressive at all. You could put pretty much any other (10gal suitable) fish you like with it, except another shrimpgoby. I'm also partial to clown gobies, if you can find one that's eating well.

In a 10gal, you should expect to be able to stock 2 nano (3" or under, preferably slender) fish. If you pick very small fish like tiny gobies and blennies, you could do 3.

 

[Magnapinna]

Ah, yes, IPSF- where you can get 6 bristleworms for $20. I've heard good things about them, but their prices for things you're likely to get free on coral frags are pretty silly.

Court jester gobies sift sand and pick at algae and copepods. They're definitely best in an established tank with a lot of things to pick at. A neon goby would be an excellent choice- they're hardy, colorful, and fun to watch. They do only live a couple years, though.

A clownfish would be fine in terms of its own need for space, they're not super active, but they do get aggressive as they mature. There might not be enough room for anything else in there with it.

My pick for a 10gal would be a small shrimpgoby like a yasha haze, Wheeler's, or antenna goby, plus a candycane pistol shrimp. Amazing symbiotic pair, great fun to watch, and not aggressive at all. You could put pretty much any other (10gal suitable) fish you like with it, except another shrimpgoby. I'm also partial to clown gobies, if you can find one that's eating well.

In a 10gal, you should expect to be able to stock 2 nano (3" or under, preferably slender) fish. If you pick very small fish like tiny gobies and blennies, you could do 3.

I hate to say it but I'm just feeling a shrimp goby. I'd prefer something that doesn't spend so much time hiding/on the bottom, I have enough animals I never get to see lol. I'm undecided on stocking so I'm okay with waiting a while to let the tank settle, will probably get some inverts in there though in the meantime. Will probably go with 2 fish but 3 would be awesome if it would work. LFS said no fish are suitable for a 10 gallon --- starting to think these guys are yanking my chain lol

 

[Tired]

Those guys are badly informed, then. There's some debate about some of the more common nano fish being suitable or not, but there are a good few tiny fish that are definitely fine. There are also a couple of blenny species that pick a hole and stay in it- barnacle blennies, the sailfin blennies KP Aquatics has. You could practically keep them in a breeder box permanently if you could ensure that they had something in it that they wanted to sit in.

A firefish would be a good option. They can be a bit timid, but should hover visibly when not spooked, and they have pretty colors and a charming, twitchy dorsal fin. They're best added first due to that timid nature. They do, though, need a very tightly fitted lid. Everything mobile (including shrimp!) needs a lid, but firefish will very quickly show you why a lid is important if kept in a lidless tank.