Is this Mandarin skinny?

[vetteguy53081]

In the case that a fish does feed off its liver, is it essentially moribund at that point?

It can become. The pic you doers posted suggest a skinny mandarin

 

[PharmrJohn]

This is indeed skinny. They need a large and constant supply of food such as pods and rotifiers. If not eating, will eventually feed off its liver

And there's the answer. And I think the term you are looking for is Gluconeogenesis! Basically the breakdown of fats and proteins into sugar. It could be the pic, but it looks skinny to me too. And I've seen these go for a lot less than a buck-15.

 

[litsoh]

What kind of telltale signs are there that a fish begins to feed off its liver other than a sunken stomach?

 

[PharmrJohn]

No real tell tale signs I know of. From what limited re-education I performed, you can actually get a fatty liver (Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease (NAFLD)) from prolonged GNG that ultimately leads to Fibrosis (BAD!). I'd look for weight loss in the entire system rather than just a part of it. I can see an issue with liver size, certainly, at end stage.

 

[Malum Argenteum]

I didn't say "no" fish, I said Mandarins as they need to eat every 10 or 15 seconds and you can't feed pellets or frozen like that constantly unless you have absolutely no life. Mandarins have a stomach like a seahorse and can't store much if any food so they need to eat constantly.

You said that "I would not give pellets or frozen food to a mandarin as that is not what they were built to eat." Since no fish were "built to eat" frozen or pellets, it follows that no fish should be given frozen or pellets (well, strictly that you wouldn't give any fish frozen or pellets, but no one is compelled to be consistent).

Having a small stomach doesn't entail that that frozen or pellets shouldn't be given, though it may follow that keeping them well fed solely on frozen or pellets would be difficult (which I don't think anyone would disagree with).


FWIW, I've seen mandarins gorge themselves on frozen to a degree that would put many other species to shame, so I'm not so sure about the small stomach hypothesis playing out in practice.

 

[Paul B]

Since no fish were "built to eat" frozen or pellets, it follows that no fish should be given frozen or pellets (well, strictly that you wouldn't give any fish frozen or pellets, but no one is compelled to be consistent).

I do believe pellets should not be fed to any fish. Frozen is different if frozen properly. But a mandarin. although will eat just about anything small enough will not live in any tank if not enough natural foods are available. I don't think you will find an old mandarin living in a tank with no natural food like pods. You can feed anything you like but they need to eat constantly. Mandarins live about 10 years. In my tank anyway but some people may keep them longer.

A mandarin may gorge itself on some food but it can't digest all that food and most of it will just be pushed out undigested as their intestinal tract is not designed for it. It's just a short tube and needs small amounts of food to go through it constantly.

But of course I am not the God of Mandarins nor am I part Mandarin. But if I see a pod, I may jump on it.

 

[litsoh]

Update: LFS sent me another video of the Mandarin actively picking at the rock and let me know that it fed on some fish eggs, so some super promising signs. It'll still be a long way to go to fully fatten him/her up but hopefully when I come by on Friday to pick em up it can fare better with the pods in my tank.