Japanese Deepwater Zoanthids.
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I know most of you all know more people than i do who go diving and do research and stuff, but im just wondering
Why is it so unlikely that a very colorful zoa can be found deep in the waters of japan? What if the wholesellers are getting them from japan,but some wholeseller a while ago lied which started all of the deepwater bs talk??? Which makes every one think jap. deepwater zoas are a lie
Im not directing this at anyone, I just want to know why is it so impossible????
Why is it so unlikely that a very colorful zoa can be found deep in the waters of japan? What if the wholesellers are getting them from japan,but some wholeseller a while ago lied which started all of the deepwater bs talk??? Which makes every one think jap. deepwater zoas are a lie
Im not directing this at anyone, I just want to know why is it so impossible????
BlueWaterTropicals
Active Member
ronnie
Acro addict
So finding one color morph that pretty much matches yours isn't validation enough?
I'm confused by your post?
Obviously, you didn't bother to read the whole thread, the first post states that "Japanese Deepwater zoas" are neither from Japan, nor are they from deepwater, just because that is the moniker that got hung on them by the industry doesn't make them Japanese, nor does it make them deepwater. I researched these pretty extensively, and in various conversations what became obvious is that these colonies were actually imported from Indonesia and from relatively shallow areas. Extensive research on my part into the PE type zoanthids (which happens to be one of the few zoas IDed down to genus and species) which you posted as one of your "True Japanese Deepwater" zoas indicates that these zoas are always found in relatively shallow waters, including the Indonesian varieties (which actually have another name). Now since they are found in Japan, I have no issue with the Japanese part of your statement - perhaps they indeed are. If so, I hope they aren't growing on any LR, as that is highly illegal and importing them could potentially cost you your license. As for the "deepwater" part - if those other polyps were indeed deepwater, they certainly would not retain their color and vividness in the shallowness of our tanks, which would make purchasing them just silly.
In your defense however, I do think that you had fairly reasonable prices on the colonies - assuming they were WYSIWYG, the issue that is truly being debated is your use of a name.
Your basing your opinion on someone else's opinion. That "first post" isn't fact, just second hand info alledgedly from some dude that devoted his life to studying a polyp.... Where they truley came from no one really knows. That said, I just bought a Japanese Maple tree, the label says it was grown in Oregon. Did I get "ripped off"?
OP
OP
No offense, but I really don't see how that is relevant to this topic or how you can totally ignore a scientist who researches this type of thing....if we're going to suggest that researched FACT is not good enough evidence, then what the heck are we supposed to use as evidence?
ronnie
Acro addict
Nah - you weren't ripped off. The Japanese Maple actually did originate overseas.
The scientific name of Japanese Maple is Acer palmatum and it has its origin in the Eastern countries of Korea, Japan and China. This type of maple tree is a deciduous shrub that grows upto a height of 30 feet. The tree is been cultivated in Japan for many centuries. The leaves have 5 - 8 lobes and are green in summer and change to bronze, yellow, red or purple during fall. The tree bears small red, purple flowers. There are around 1000 cultivars of Japanese Maple. Some of the Japanese Maple cultivars are listed below,
'Bloodgood'
'Golden Pond'
'Higasa yama'
'Little Princess'
'Pink Filigree'
Based on your tree logic, any frags you sell from any "named" pieces you own are no longer that name since they didn't come from that person.....
Pizzapro83
Well-Known Member
Good one !!
Well, based on your logic of course, if the wholesaler sold them as japanese deepwaters, they must be. I have no idea where any of my "named" corals originated from, I have to go by what the seller tells me ....
ronnie
Acro addict
Incorrect ksc - if you go reread (or read) page 1-4 of this, I'm questioning the entire lineage of these so-called Japanese Deepwater Zoas.
Nowhere have I said that if the wholesaler is calling them X, that they must be X.
So if a seller tells you that a piece originates from Antarctica, you will then believe them?
See here for a previous response of mine if you are confused....
Nowhere have I said that if the wholesaler is calling them X, that they must be X.
So if a seller tells you that a piece originates from Antarctica, you will then believe them?
See here for a previous response of mine if you are confused....
BlueWaterTropicals
Active Member
For all of those asking for CITES info on Japanese Zoa's... I have been in contact with several authorities in Japan and all of them say it is NOT illegal to ship Zoa's out of Japan and that they are NOT regulated under CITES. So no permits required if you're wondering what that means. However, when it comes to harvesting them, you can not take more then the rock they are atached to as the rock is protected.
Bongo Shrimp
Well-Known Member
+1,000,000,000,000
Nor does this verify that in fact the zoas are truly taken from deepwater.
Also FYI, those Zoanthus gigantus polyps were not Zoanthus sansibaricus.
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A japanese maple from oregon is still called a japanese maple. Not a korean maple, nor a chinese maple, it's common name established in the industry is Japanese Maple (and I wish I could grow them but San Diego tap is just too hard and burns them horribly, and I don't have an RO unit to use RO water on them.)
I think the point that was being made was Zoa X is also called a Zoa X even though it's also found in different locals, and even though it's not from local X.
Thus, if even one polyp has been found in Japanese Deep Waters, any other Zoa that looks similar has as much application of being called a Japanese Deep Water as an Acer grown in Oregon does of being called a Japanese Maple.
Or we can go with "American" cars that are largely built in foreign countries or assembled with foreign parts-it's just a name branding.
That some claim (such as the article posted) that such "Really REAlly REALLY IMO doesn't exist" is not cut-in-stone proof. The first article posted is largely opinion from a singular source. I would accept it as a fairly valid opinion, but I'm not going to swear by an opinion.
That this has all come up right when BWT has posted up some stuff does seem like an "attack" on the vendor-I think he's actually gone to considerable length to justify his naming.
Oh, and who the heck keeps saying zoa's only grow on rock? Most wild colonies I see are usually on some form of encrusting coralline algae. Japan doesn't seem to highly value coralline, so if someone is chipping the coralline off that the zoa's are attached to, then putting them in a holding tank till the matt attaches to a piece of rock, isn't that issue solved?
I think the point that was being made was Zoa X is also called a Zoa X even though it's also found in different locals, and even though it's not from local X.
Thus, if even one polyp has been found in Japanese Deep Waters, any other Zoa that looks similar has as much application of being called a Japanese Deep Water as an Acer grown in Oregon does of being called a Japanese Maple.
Or we can go with "American" cars that are largely built in foreign countries or assembled with foreign parts-it's just a name branding.
That some claim (such as the article posted) that such "Really REAlly REALLY IMO doesn't exist" is not cut-in-stone proof. The first article posted is largely opinion from a singular source. I would accept it as a fairly valid opinion, but I'm not going to swear by an opinion.
That this has all come up right when BWT has posted up some stuff does seem like an "attack" on the vendor-I think he's actually gone to considerable length to justify his naming.
Oh, and who the heck keeps saying zoa's only grow on rock? Most wild colonies I see are usually on some form of encrusting coralline algae. Japan doesn't seem to highly value coralline, so if someone is chipping the coralline off that the zoa's are attached to, then putting them in a holding tank till the matt attaches to a piece of rock, isn't that issue solved?
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