Looking for feedback on my ICP Results

SaltwaterScoop · Jul 28, 2023

Tank Specs - 230ish gallons (2x 40 gallon breeders plumbed into a Waterbox 180.5)
I am mostly keeping LPS, but I might start dabbling into some SPS soon. It has been running for about a year.

I just got back my ICP test results back from ATI. I'm wanting to start dosing major/minor elements and do an ICP test every 2-3 months to monitor. The only thing I'm dosing is soda ash daily for maintaining alkalinity. My Calcium and Magnesium have always been in range without dosing. After receiving my results, I plan to dose Iodine, Potassium, Molybdenum, Zinc, Manganese, and I might try Rubidium to experiment.

Is there anything else I am not thinking about and should address?

Symbol	Value	Calculated reference value	Difference
Base elements
Salinity	34.61 PSU	35.00 PSU	-0.39 PSU
Carbonate hardness	8.78 °dKH	7.50 °dKH	+1.28 °dKH
Major elements
Chloride	19663 mg/l	19362 mg/l	+301.2 mg/l
Sodium	10589 mg/l	10757 mg/l	-167.3 mg/l
Magnesium	1493 mg/l	1286 mg/l	+206.6 mg/l
Sulfur	896.9 mg/l	899.6 mg/l	-2.79 mg/l
Calcium	475.4 mg/l	411.7 mg/l	+63.74 mg/l
Potassium	397.8 mg/l	399.0 mg/l	-1.18 mg/l
Bromine	98.33 mg/l	65.52 mg/l	+32.81 mg/l
Strontium	10.93 mg/l	7.82 mg/l	+3.11 mg/l
Boron	5.88 mg/l	4.30 mg/l	+1.58 mg/l
Fluorine	1.26 mg/l	1.27 mg/l	-0.01 mg/l
Minor elements
Lithium	432.3 µg/l	166.2 µg/l	+266.0 µg/l
Silicon	162.1 µg/l	97.79 µg/l	+64.30 µg/l
Iodine	23.61 µg/l	63.56 µg/l	-39.95 µg/l
Barium	34.34 µg/l	9.78 µg/l	+24.56 µg/l
Molybdenum	3.41 µg/l	11.73 µg/l	-8.32 µg/l
Nickel	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l
Manganese	u.	0.98 µg/l	-0.98 µg/l
Arsenic	u.	1.47 µg/l	-1.47 µg/l
Beryllium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Chrome	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l
Cobalt	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Iron	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l
Copper	1.29 µg/l	0.49 µg/l	+0.80 µg/l
Selenium	u.	0.49 µg/l	-0.49 µg/l
Silver	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Vanadium	1.23 µg/l	1.47 µg/l	-0.23 µg/l
Zinc	u.	1.96 µg/l	-1.96 µg/l
Tin	38.97 µg/l	0.49 µg/l	+38.48 µg/l
Nutrients
Nitrate	7.29 mg/l	2.00 mg/l	+5.29 mg/l
Phosphorus	11.71 µg/l	14.67 µg/l	-2.96 µg/l
Phosphate	0.04 mg/l	0.04 mg/l	-0.01 mg/l
Pollutants
Aluminium	7.46 µg/l	0.10 µg/l	+7.37 µg/l
Antimony	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Bismuth	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Lead	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Cadmium	u.	0.20 µg/l	-0.20 µg/l
Lanthanum	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l
Thallium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Titanium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Tungsten	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l
Mercury	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l

Thanks!

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 28, 2023

Tin is high. Are corals seemingly OK? Tin can sometimes apparently come from plastics.

You might benefit from a trace element supplement. (or not).

Otherwise, nothing jumps out at me.

SaltwaterScoop · Jul 28, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Tin is high. Are corals seemingly OK? Tin can sometimes apparently come from plastics.

You might benefit from a trace element supplement. (or not).

Otherwise, nothing jumps out at me.

Thanks for the input! They seem ok for the most part.

I did have a yellow torch detach it's polyps randomly a few months back.

The other torch corals are not extending as far as I'd like but Zoas seem fine, frogspawn/hammers are good, and a rainbow monti frag I just got is still looking ok. The only questionable plastic I can think of is the hydromaxx plumbing I used for the 40 gallons or maybe the braided vinyl tubing from my return pump. Is this something I should try to eliminate/lower with water changes or carbon?

What do you think of individually dosing the lower elements to bring them up and then starting like 14 ml/day of Seachem Reef Trace Elements to maintain the trace elements (I have a spare 1.1 ml/day peristaltic pump)?

Alex Costa · Jul 28, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Tin is high. Are corals seemingly OK? Tin can sometimes apparently come from plastics.

Hey Randy!
Do you have the source of it?
Thanks!

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 28, 2023

Alex Costa said:
Hey Randy!
Do you have the source of it?
Thanks!

Some folks have fingered certain types of tubing, but I do not recall which brands. I'm not sure we have a good handle on the types. Tin is used as a heat stabilizer in some types of plastics.

SaltwaterScoop · Jul 28, 2023

I plumbed in the 40s back in March with all new flexible PVC and new PVC fittings so I'm leaning towards that being the culprit. I'm planning to do some water changes and maybe running Continuum Aquatics Power Cleanse HM.

If it's plumbing related, the leeching should subside with time...right?

SaltwaterScoop · Aug 7, 2023

I ordered another ICP test. I have been soaking some pieces of the flex PVC plumbing I used on the 40s in RO/DI water and plan to send that in as my RO sample to see if I can find the source of the leeching tin.

I've done 2x 15% water changes, and I've been running carbon and polyfilter since my results came back so maybe my tin levels have dropped some.

I have also been daily dosing trace elements after doing some slight corrective doses.

I plan to send in my water samples this Friday. Anything else I should consider?

SaltwaterScoop · Aug 8, 2023

Found this on one of the 40's MP10 wetside...

Do y'all think it could've caused anything? I ordered 2 new wetsides to replace them because I got them used. I'm still leaning towards the flex plumbing though.

SaltwaterScoop · Aug 17, 2023

New ICP came back and I'm at a loss. Tin is still elevated and came back higher than before at 46.21 µg/l vs 38.97 µg/l.
My RO sample with the flex PVC came back with 0 Tin after soaking in RO water for 2 weeks.

That was after 2 decent sized 50g water changes over 2 weeks and running Polyfilter. I have since replaced those 2 MP10 wet sides but that amount of rust couldn't have been it, right?

What should I be looking for next?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 17, 2023

Ro water may be different in extracting whatever tin form is present than is seawater, but it also may be coming from somewhere else. The change you note may also be random testing error and it is not still rising.

Are there other plastic parts such as pvc present?

SaltwaterScoop · Aug 17, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Ro water may be different in extracting whatever tin form is present than is seawater, but it also may be coming from somewhere else. The change you note may also be random testing error and it is not still rising.

Are there other plastic parts such as pvc present?

Thanks for the info! That is good to know.

I have a a lot of PVC in the sump area:

My auto feeder came with a black piece of PVC to direct the food into the water column. It was too short so I added that white piece of PVC to reach the sump water. I used the shorter black piece to angle the return pump towards the auto feeder output. I also have a Schedule 80 elbow to redirect the skimmer output downwards into the sump.

Do you think it's worth removing any of those?

I also used several PVC fittings when I plumbed in my 40 gallon breeders back in April:

I also regularly use these when working in the tank:

zoomonster · Aug 17, 2023

SaltwaterScoop said:
Found this on one of the 40's MP10 wetside...

Do y'all think it could've caused anything? I ordered 2 new wetsides to replace them because I got them used. I'm still leaning towards the flex plumbing though.

Not seen exactly the same but the wetsides on my MP40's have come apart before and the magnets were rusting. Ecotech recommends cleaning with vinegar but IMO worst thing you can do with plastics. Stick to cleaning with citric acid. Not had a problem since I switched to citric acid.

SaltwaterScoop · Aug 17, 2023

Here are the results of the latest ICP:

Symbol	Value	Calculated reference value	Difference
Base elements
Salinity	35.88 PSU	35.00 PSU	+0.88 PSU
Carbonate hardness	8.19 °dKH	7.50 °dKH	+0.69 °dKH
Major elements
Chloride	20411 mg/l	20101 mg/l	+310.7 mg/l
Sodium	10994 mg/l	11167 mg/l	-172.6 mg/l
Magnesium	1488 mg/l	1335 mg/l	+152.8 mg/l
Sulfur	949.0 mg/l	934.0 mg/l	+15.05 mg/l
Calcium	474.2 mg/l	427.4 mg/l	+46.78 mg/l
Potassium	413.2 mg/l	414.2 mg/l	-0.96 mg/l
Bromine	100.3 mg/l	68.02 mg/l	+32.33 mg/l
Strontium	11.19 mg/l	8.12 mg/l	+3.07 mg/l
Boron	5.97 mg/l	4.47 mg/l	+1.51 mg/l
Fluorine	1.20 mg/l	1.32 mg/l	-0.12 mg/l
Minor elements
Lithium	432.6 µg/l	172.6 µg/l	+260.0 µg/l
Silicon	107.2 µg/l	101.5 µg/l	+5.67 µg/l
Iodine	37.16 µg/l	65.99 µg/l	-28.82 µg/l
Barium	35.31 µg/l	10.15 µg/l	+25.16 µg/l
Molybdenum	14.09 µg/l	12.18 µg/l	+1.91 µg/l
Nickel	u.	0.51 µg/l	-0.51 µg/l
Manganese	u.	1.02 µg/l	-1.02 µg/l
Arsenic	u.	1.52 µg/l	-1.52 µg/l
Beryllium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Chrome	u.	0.51 µg/l	-0.51 µg/l
Cobalt	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Iron	u.	0.51 µg/l	-0.51 µg/l
Copper	u.	0.51 µg/l	-0.51 µg/l
Selenium	u.	0.51 µg/l	-0.51 µg/l
Silver	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Vanadium	1.43 µg/l	1.52 µg/l	-0.09 µg/l
Zinc	2.93 µg/l	2.03 µg/l	+0.90 µg/l
Tin	46.21 µg/l	0.51 µg/l	+45.70 µg/l
Nutrients
Nitrate	4.42 mg/l	2.00 mg/l	+2.42 mg/l
Phosphorus	15.87 µg/l	15.23 µg/l	+0.64 µg/l
Phosphate	0.05 mg/l	0.05 mg/l	+0 mg/l
Pollutants
Aluminium	13.00 µg/l	0.10 µg/l	+12.90 µg/l
Antimony	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Bismuth	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Lead	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Cadmium	u.	0.20 µg/l	-0.20 µg/l
Lanthanum	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l
Thallium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Titanium	u.	0.10 µg/l	-0.10 µg/l
Tungsten	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l
Mercury	u.	0 µg/l	+0 µg/l

jda · Aug 17, 2023

I would worry about Chinese Plastics like pumps in addition to the plumbing adding Tin, if you have any. Full disclose: I have just heard about this and don't have any firsthand experience, though.

Some salt mixes used to have high levels of Tin, but I do not think that they are all that popular anymore.

Some frozen foods can add tin, like clams and brine shrimp - I have no idea how much.

SaltwaterScoop · Aug 17, 2023

jda said:
I would worry about Chinese Plastics like pumps in addition to the plumbing adding Tin, if you have any. Full disclose: I have just heard about this and don't have any firsthand experience, though.

Some salt mixes used to have high levels of Tin, but I do not think that they are all that popular anymore.

Some frozen foods can add tin, like clams and brine shrimp - I have no idea how much.

Definitely something to consider...

I feed 2 cubes of Hikari frozen mysis / spirulina everyday

I have only used Reef Crystals on this tank so far.

I know my auto feeder uses a SICCE Syncra Nano mixing pump, and I also use a SICCE Voyager Nano in the return chamber to mix any food that doesn't go immediately into the return pump. I'm not sure where SICCE sources their parts. My other pumps are all Ecotech (Vortechs and Vectra). Not sure about the Reef Octopus skimmer.

jda · Aug 17, 2023

If everything looks fine, I would not worry about this too much. Have you seen high Tin from a different ICP test place?

If the Tin was residue from plastic, or even glass, then it should be in the water now and coming down with water changes, or even skimming if tin binds to organics (I don't know if Tin does bind to organics, but lots of metal do). I would verify the test from another company before I dug in too much more.

SaltwaterScoop · Aug 17, 2023

jda said:
If everything looks fine, I would not worry about this too much. Have you seen high Tin from a different ICP test place?

If the Tin was residue from plastic, or even glass, then it should be in the water now and coming down with water changes, or even skimming if tin binds to organics (I don't know if Tin does bind to organics, but lots of metal do). I would verify the test from another company before I dug in too much more.

I had a torch and a hammer randomly drop their polyps and growth seems to be stalled in the other corals for the last couple of months. That's why I decided to do the initial ICP. Maybe I'll try another company for my next one. I have only used ATI so far. Maybe I should try Triton next?

I guess it could still be tin leeching from all the new plumbing I added for the 40 gallons in April. I started weekly 15% water changes since the first ICP but before that I had only done 1 water change since adding the 40s since my nutrients were so low from the increased water volume.

Everything definitely seems to be doing better with the water changes and trace element dosing.

SaltwaterScoop · Sep 13, 2023

Triton has my tin at 28 µg/l so maybe the water changes are working and it's not leeching anymore?

https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/icp-oes/197430

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 13, 2023

SaltwaterScoop said:
Triton has my tin at 28 µg/l so maybe the water changes are working and it's not leeching anymore?

https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/icp-oes/197430

It might be slowing down, yes. In any case, the trend is good.