Bluelobstor
Active Member
Maybe I'm missing something but why do you want micro bubbles for the ATS
Need help bringing life to my 5 year old tank
- Thread starter rcdude
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saltyfish
Active Member
Algae scrubbers are great but make sure you are dedicated to that idea. By having an algae scrubber, you are purposely growing hair algae. If you start lacking on your maintenance there is a chance that hair algae could spread to your display. If you decide later on to remove the scrubber, make sure your phosphates are near zero before doing so. I'm not at all saying you shouldn't add one, just wanting you to know what could happen.
Bluelobstor
Active Member
Looks nice. If setup properly I wouldn't worry about the ATS water falling out of the tank.
well i mean 5yrs and i never missed my bi-weekly lol :tongue: i am definitly going to start my weekly 10gallon water changes this sunday and every sunday.. so possibly i will do my waterchanges for a month and see how it goes? i mean i have the supplies to make my upflow ATS for sunday so i mean might as well do it right? ill just clean it every week just like how i usuall clean my skimmer and such every week... just one more chore to getting closer to a beautiful tank like some other reefers here haha
SantaMonicaHelp
Valuable Member
- Saltyfish: There is actually no chance of algae spreading from a scrubber to the rest of the tank :]
- Guidelines for sizing:
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/do-yourself-diy/168055-updated-algae-scrubber-sizing-guidelines.html
- Here is an article comparing refugium and scrubber functions:
"Scrubbers compared to refugiums
If you are starting a new tank, then the obvious difference is that a scrubber gives you the option of not having a fuge at all because the scrubber can go on top of, in, or behind the display. There are other uses for a sump/fuge of course, but we'll only cover the filtration concerns.
A not-so-obvious difference is that a scrubber, if run together with a fuge with macros, will kill the macros even though the macros are much larger. This is because the scrubber thinks the macros are nuisance algae. Some people do run both together without killing the macros, but this is just because their scrubber is not strong enough, and actually the macros might even be slowing down the scrubber because the scrubber thinks it has to remove the macros, and the nutrients in the water, and the nuisance algae in the display. However, if it works for their current setup, good.
But assuming you have to decide on either a sump/fuge or a scrubber (not both)...
o Filtration with algae is proportional photosynthesis, which is proportional to Light X Flow X Attachment. Meaning, stronger light grows more algae; stronger water flow grows more algae; and stronger attachment lets more algae grow without it floating away. A scrubber is designed to maximize Light, Flow, and Attachment.
o The main problem with macros in a refugium is the self-shading that the macros do. Any part of the macro which is not directly in front of the light at any moment is not filtering. And any macro inside of a "ball" of macro (like chaeto) is self-shaded all the time. Only the surface macro that is directly in front of the light is doing any real filtering. A scrubber is designed to have all the algae in front of the light at all times. Rotating the macro does not solve the problem because the time that the macro is rotated away from the light is time that the macro is not filtering. This is why it takes a much larger size of chaeto to do the same filtering as a scrubber.
o Self-flow-blocking is another problem of macros in a refugium, for the same reason as light-blocking. And the thicker the "ball" of macro, the worse the flow-blocking.
o Particle trapping is another result of a ball of macro. These particles need to cycle back around to feed the corals, but instead they get trapped in the macro and rot, and in doing so they block even more flow and light.
o With a scrubber, there is very little water standing in the way of the light. Also, the light is (or should be) very close to the scrubber... 4 inches (10cm) or less. The power of light varies with the inverse square of the distance, so going from 8" to 4" actually gives you 4X the power, not 2X. And the nutrient removal power of algae is proportional to the power of the light, because it's the photosynthesis that is doing the filtering.
o Rapid flow across the algae in a scrubber gives more delivery of nutrients, compared to the slow moving water in a fuge. Filtering is proportion to nutrient flow.
o The turbulence of water moving over the sections of algae in a scrubber help to remove the boundary layer of water around the algae. This boundary layer slows the transfer of metabolites in and out of the algae. There is no turbulence in a fuge (if there were, you'd have waves and bubbles).
o Scrubbers do not let food particles settle like a refugium does; most particles flow right out of the scrubber.
o Scrubbers do not (if cleaned properly) release strands into display, like chaeto does.
o Scrubbers do not go sexual, like caulerpa can.
o Scrubbers do grow lots of pods; more than was previously thought.
o Scrubber don't, obviously, provide a place for snails and crabs, etc.
However, if you already have a sump with an empty compartment, and you don't mind using all of it and putting a light over it, then maybe it's easier and cheaper to try macros than even a DIY scrubber."
Hope this helps, happy to field more questions if you guys have any :]
- Guidelines for sizing:
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/do-yourself-diy/168055-updated-algae-scrubber-sizing-guidelines.html
- Here is an article comparing refugium and scrubber functions:
"Scrubbers compared to refugiums
If you are starting a new tank, then the obvious difference is that a scrubber gives you the option of not having a fuge at all because the scrubber can go on top of, in, or behind the display. There are other uses for a sump/fuge of course, but we'll only cover the filtration concerns.
A not-so-obvious difference is that a scrubber, if run together with a fuge with macros, will kill the macros even though the macros are much larger. This is because the scrubber thinks the macros are nuisance algae. Some people do run both together without killing the macros, but this is just because their scrubber is not strong enough, and actually the macros might even be slowing down the scrubber because the scrubber thinks it has to remove the macros, and the nutrients in the water, and the nuisance algae in the display. However, if it works for their current setup, good.
But assuming you have to decide on either a sump/fuge or a scrubber (not both)...
o Filtration with algae is proportional photosynthesis, which is proportional to Light X Flow X Attachment. Meaning, stronger light grows more algae; stronger water flow grows more algae; and stronger attachment lets more algae grow without it floating away. A scrubber is designed to maximize Light, Flow, and Attachment.
o The main problem with macros in a refugium is the self-shading that the macros do. Any part of the macro which is not directly in front of the light at any moment is not filtering. And any macro inside of a "ball" of macro (like chaeto) is self-shaded all the time. Only the surface macro that is directly in front of the light is doing any real filtering. A scrubber is designed to have all the algae in front of the light at all times. Rotating the macro does not solve the problem because the time that the macro is rotated away from the light is time that the macro is not filtering. This is why it takes a much larger size of chaeto to do the same filtering as a scrubber.
o Self-flow-blocking is another problem of macros in a refugium, for the same reason as light-blocking. And the thicker the "ball" of macro, the worse the flow-blocking.
o Particle trapping is another result of a ball of macro. These particles need to cycle back around to feed the corals, but instead they get trapped in the macro and rot, and in doing so they block even more flow and light.
o With a scrubber, there is very little water standing in the way of the light. Also, the light is (or should be) very close to the scrubber... 4 inches (10cm) or less. The power of light varies with the inverse square of the distance, so going from 8" to 4" actually gives you 4X the power, not 2X. And the nutrient removal power of algae is proportional to the power of the light, because it's the photosynthesis that is doing the filtering.
o Rapid flow across the algae in a scrubber gives more delivery of nutrients, compared to the slow moving water in a fuge. Filtering is proportion to nutrient flow.
o The turbulence of water moving over the sections of algae in a scrubber help to remove the boundary layer of water around the algae. This boundary layer slows the transfer of metabolites in and out of the algae. There is no turbulence in a fuge (if there were, you'd have waves and bubbles).
o Scrubbers do not let food particles settle like a refugium does; most particles flow right out of the scrubber.
o Scrubbers do not (if cleaned properly) release strands into display, like chaeto does.
o Scrubbers do not go sexual, like caulerpa can.
o Scrubbers do grow lots of pods; more than was previously thought.
o Scrubber don't, obviously, provide a place for snails and crabs, etc.
However, if you already have a sump with an empty compartment, and you don't mind using all of it and putting a light over it, then maybe it's easier and cheaper to try macros than even a DIY scrubber."
Hope this helps, happy to field more questions if you guys have any :]
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SantaMonica
Valuable Member
Oh, and as for bubbles...
saltyfish
Active Member
When I make posts I am speaking from experience, not just repeating what others say. I had a tank setup for 3 years with high nitrates and phosphates and no algae problems. I started a new tank and transferred everything over from the other tank and added an algae scrubber. I did not stay on top of water changes and my nitrates and phosphates began being elevated. Hair algae quickly took over my display. I had never had hair algae in any of my tanks before that. Once it starts groping in your tank, it is there for the life of the tank.
tigerdragon
Valuable Member
Well back side has a led red and blue, front side has a 3700k led, the lights on the chaeto are 6500k nanoglo's
Just ordered a par 38 bulb red/blue... Gonna do a up flow ats hopefully up and running on friday 
For now tho i did pick up a diamond goby and hes doing a very good job at keeping my sand nice and clean. Water change coming up sunday
For now tho i did pick up a diamond goby and hes doing a very good job at keeping my sand nice and clean. Water change coming up sunday
SantaMonica
Valuable Member
Phosphate was coming out of the old rock.
Bluelobstor
Active Member
are you sure your test kits were accurate. I don't see how you can have high nitrates and phosphates yet no algae unless you had enough grazers to keep it in check
got my par38 led bulb in the mail which has red leds and 2 blues... sunday im doing my water change and monday i will be doing a lot of equipment work meaning organizing wires and such and also place the scrubber in. cant wait to just get the ball rolling
looking forward to seeing your progress rc!
thank you guys im very anxious to just get the tank of my dreams lol
anyone here deal with spider web issues by any chance? freakin spiders just randomly poppin up lol.
as far as organizing ill post some before and after pics.. lookin to clean up wiring and such.. mount plugs and surge protectors and stuff and keep it off the floor just in case anything happens lol
i have notice a sort of filmy thing ontop of my sump water.. gonna clean it with a fine net and see if it returns
anyone here deal with spider web issues by any chance? freakin spiders just randomly poppin up lol.
as far as organizing ill post some before and after pics.. lookin to clean up wiring and such.. mount plugs and surge protectors and stuff and keep it off the floor just in case anything happens lol
i have notice a sort of filmy thing ontop of my sump water.. gonna clean it with a fine net and see if it returns
Also quick questions
Sunday during water change i plan to take a maxi jet and use it as a vacuum kind of by removing all sediment at the bottom of the sump in every chamber. Now im wondering how many gallons of water is actually in my sump -_- because maybe itll b easy to just wet/dry vac the sump empty entirely, clean everything and such and replace it with the fresh mixed salt water. Good idea ,bad idea? I definitly need to clean the bottom of sump because learning about sediment and such i never touched it before but now i heard it can cause many problems and such looks like its an additional chore to my water changes now haha but again thats fine
Also, in the middle part (refuge) i currently have the chaeto (dying chaeto or w.e lol) and 2 large pieces of LR. Now tomorrow i plan to get my supplies up and ready for the up flow scrubber. So now im taking a different twist on the upow scrubber and ditching the airline tubing ideas and making my own kinda thing (pics to come tomorrow haha) so i dnt think I'll have room for these pieces of LR. So shoukd i remove them entirely? Maybe like after i clean skimmer/first chamber I'll put them in their? Maybe put them in last chamber? I dunno lol seems like a waste of about 15 lbs of LR lol and my display def cant handle any more haha.
Now also on the LR in sump it does have growth i guess you can say.. I have a maxi jet in the center chamber and like i can see like mini strands of like brownish algae and such. So im thinking when i remove my water maybe put the LR in the bucket maybe swirl it around and try to like rub off all that stuff? Will take pics tomorrow.
Im thinking about removing the LR because many others just have a bare bottom center chamber.
And finally the center chamber as you can see has some coralline growth on the glass... However since my stand is tiny and annoying im planning to place my up flow scrubber against this piece of glass.. So #1 removing the light pink coralline algae... Good or bad idea?(theres def some on the walls and such. #2 how can i remove it off of glass cause a sponge definitely didn't work lol. And finally #3 if its ok for me to clean the algae on this specific piece of glass... Should i just clean the entire center chamber, meaning clean all of the algae and such whether it be good or bad algae?
Sunday during water change i plan to take a maxi jet and use it as a vacuum kind of by removing all sediment at the bottom of the sump in every chamber. Now im wondering how many gallons of water is actually in my sump -_- because maybe itll b easy to just wet/dry vac the sump empty entirely, clean everything and such and replace it with the fresh mixed salt water. Good idea ,bad idea? I definitly need to clean the bottom of sump because learning about sediment and such i never touched it before but now i heard it can cause many problems and such looks like its an additional chore to my water changes now haha but again thats fine
Also, in the middle part (refuge) i currently have the chaeto (dying chaeto or w.e lol) and 2 large pieces of LR. Now tomorrow i plan to get my supplies up and ready for the up flow scrubber. So now im taking a different twist on the upow scrubber and ditching the airline tubing ideas and making my own kinda thing (pics to come tomorrow haha) so i dnt think I'll have room for these pieces of LR. So shoukd i remove them entirely? Maybe like after i clean skimmer/first chamber I'll put them in their? Maybe put them in last chamber? I dunno lol seems like a waste of about 15 lbs of LR lol and my display def cant handle any more haha.
Now also on the LR in sump it does have growth i guess you can say.. I have a maxi jet in the center chamber and like i can see like mini strands of like brownish algae and such. So im thinking when i remove my water maybe put the LR in the bucket maybe swirl it around and try to like rub off all that stuff? Will take pics tomorrow.
Im thinking about removing the LR because many others just have a bare bottom center chamber.
And finally the center chamber as you can see has some coralline growth on the glass... However since my stand is tiny and annoying im planning to place my up flow scrubber against this piece of glass.. So #1 removing the light pink coralline algae... Good or bad idea?(theres def some on the walls and such. #2 how can i remove it off of glass cause a sponge definitely didn't work lol. And finally #3 if its ok for me to clean the algae on this specific piece of glass... Should i just clean the entire center chamber, meaning clean all of the algae and such whether it be good or bad algae?
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Quick update.... Sunday i did my water change and also did a lot of cleaning in the sump. Removed 10 gallons worth of sump water which i used a maxi jet to mostly gather all the sediment at the bottom of the sump edges. I then decided to pull out the two large pieces of LR in the sump and install my diy up flow scrubber with par 38 bulb... Pics posted tomorrow. I just hope this works haha. But so far no sign of red algae on my sand however again diamond goby might be helping with that lol.
U currently have the 2 large LR pieces in a bucket with maxi jet pump.
So now that the ball is rolling and i know i should wait a few weeks.. Lets plan for the future. Any suggestions of things i will need to run my softie tank? Such as if i need to dose, test for certain things, buy anything like reactors and such?
U currently have the 2 large LR pieces in a bucket with maxi jet pump.
So now that the ball is rolling and i know i should wait a few weeks.. Lets plan for the future. Any suggestions of things i will need to run my softie tank? Such as if i need to dose, test for certain things, buy anything like reactors and such?
Bluelobstor
Active Member
With softies I would run heavy carbon as allethopy can become a concern and a larger than required protein skimmer.
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