NEW midas blenny died - morning after reef flux dose - is that the cause?

katsreef · May 30, 2023

Hi guys. I just got a midas blenny shipped to me on Friday and it is now Tuesday - so not long at all. I woke up to the midas blenny dead. Saturday and Sunday he was eating, yesterday not as much. He still had his stress colours but I thought the eating was a great sign. Last night I dosed reef flux for my bryopsis and this morning the midas blenny is dead. My other stock (2 clowns, and a yellow watchman goby, plus inverts) are all acting normal. My current only guess is that the reef flux treatment stressed out an already stressed out new arrival. I will attach pics and videos.

Here is the midas blenny eating Sunday (he didn't eat much at all on the Monday before the treatment):

https://youtube.com/shorts/ajz2KJd92V0?feature=share

Here is a picture of the midas blenny yesterday with some stress colouring- it's been like that since it got arrived. Along with pictures of the fish after he passed:

I'm honestly not sure where to go from here. Does anyone see anything wrong with the fish? Do you guys think it was the reef flux treatment? I hadn't even had the fish for a full week yet

vetteguy53081 · May 30, 2023

katsreef said:
Hi guys. I just got a midas blenny shipped to me on Friday and it is now Tuesday - so not long at all. I woke up to the midas blenny dead. Saturday and Sunday he was eating, yesterday not as much. He still had his stress colours but I thought the eating was a great sign. Last night I dosed reef flux for my bryopsis and this morning the midas blenny is dead. My other stock (2 clowns, and a yellow watchman goby, plus inverts) are all acting normal. My current only guess is that the reef flux treatment stressed out an already stressed out new arrival. I will attach pics and videos.

Here is the midas blenny eating Sunday (he didn't eat much at all on the Monday before the treatment):

https://youtube.com/shorts/ajz2KJd92V0?feature=share

Here is a picture of the midas blenny yesterday with some stress colouring- it's been like that since it got arrived. Along with pictures of the fish after he passed:

I'm honestly not sure where to go from here. Does anyone see anything wrong with the fish? Do you guys think it was the reef flux treatment? I hadn't even had the fish for a full week yet

It could be the flux which is an algaecide or coincidence and stress of shipping. the blenny looks awefully thin and may have been weak already.
How did you acclimate fish and for how long ?

fodsod · May 30, 2023

Since you just got him and he was shipped, it's possible it had some gill damage from the ammonia build up in the shipping bag. Or he was already sick. Doesn't sound like it was in anyway on you that it died.

katsreef · May 30, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
It could be the flux which is an algaecide or coincidence and stress of shipping. the blenny looks awefully thin and may have been weak already.
How did you acclimate fish and for how long ?

I acclimated by floating for 30 minutes, and then using the half cup method every 15 minutes for an hour. Is there something better I could have done?

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · May 30, 2023

Doubtful that it caused the blenny's death. Fluconazole is an antifungal medication that weakens the cell walls in algae.

ReefDreamz · May 30, 2023

Not saying that Reef Flux didn't somehow cause the death of your Midas Blenny but I am on day 9 of a Reef Flux full dose and my Midas Blenny is fine.

Dburr1014 · May 30, 2023

Not the Flux.
MB looks pinched and not in good health.
You didn't do QT steps??

katsreef · May 30, 2023

Dburr1014 said:
Not the Flux.
MB looks pinched and not in good health.
You didn't do QT steps??

no I have a small tank and not enough room for a qt. This is my last fish going in there. or was supposed to be anyways.

vetteguy53081 · May 30, 2023

katsreef said:
I acclimated by floating for 30 minutes, and then using the half cup method every 15 minutes for an hour. Is there something better I could have done?

You were on the right track, but did you compare acclimation water with tank water to assure the salinity was equal?
Fish in shipped bags produce carbon dioxide and ammonia. The carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the water in the bag, That in turn makes the ammonia non-toxic to the fish. When you acclimate them, if not done just right, you drive off the carbon dioxide faster than you are diluting the ammonia. That raises the pH of the water in the bag, and that in turn, makes the residual ammonia very toxic to the fish.
It wont be gill damage.

katsreef · May 30, 2023

ReefDreamz said:
Not saying that Reef Flux didn't somehow cause the death of your Midas Blenny but I am on day 9 of a Reef Flux full dose and my Midas Blenny is fine.

All my other fish are fine so I thought maybe it was the stress of the change in water on top of the stress of being new to the tank. I hope the treatment works for you! I'm excited to have all my bryopsis gone lol

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · May 30, 2023

Also, ammonia absolutely causes gill damage... From an article in Reefkeeping from our own RHF:

"Ammonia is very toxic to marine fish. The mechanisms of toxicity are complicated and are an active area of continued investigation by researchers. Its effects include damage to the gills, resulting in poor gas exchange, ion regulation and blood pH regulation. Other effects include hampering oxygen delivery to tissues, disrupting metabolism and toxicity to the nervous system that causes hyperactivity, convulsions and death"

katsreef · May 30, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
You were on the right track, but did you compare acclimation water with tank water to assure the salinity was equal?
Fish in shipped bags produce carbon dioxide and ammonia. The carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the water in the bag, That in turn makes the ammonia non-toxic to the fish. When you acclimate them, if not done just right, you drive off the carbon dioxide faster than you are diluting the ammonia. That raises the pH of the water in the bag, and that in turn, makes the residual ammonia very toxic to the fish.
It wont be gill damage.

I did not do that. I will definitely do that next time though. I've only had fish shipped to me twice and the first time I get brook and this time something else happened. Maybe I'm not good at acclimating shipped fish and only good at the ones I drive to get. I feel pretty terrible about the lose of this fish. Thank you for the acclimating advice and I'll be sure to make sure the salinity is equal.

katsreef · May 30, 2023

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal said:
Doubtful that it caused the blenny's death. Fluconazole is an antifungal medication that weakens the cell walls in algae.

I thought maybe it just added to the stress- not doing the actual killing. This helped me feel better about the other fish in my tank being safe though!

Dave1993 · May 30, 2023

katsreef said:
I acclimated by floating for 30 minutes, and then using the half cup method every 15 minutes for an hour. Is there something better I could have done?

that might have killed it when you order fish for delivery you temp acclimate and add straight away

vetteguy53081 · May 30, 2023

katsreef said:
I did not do that. I will definitely do that next time though. I've only had fish shipped to me twice and the first time I get brook and this time something else happened. Maybe I'm not good at acclimating shipped fish and only good at the ones I drive to get. I feel pretty terrible about the lose of this fish. Thank you for the acclimating advice and I'll be sure to make sure the salinity is equal.

I would'nt say not good at it. . . its recognizing steps.
there are various ways to acclimate and its a matter of assuring introduction fundamentals are met. On my behalf. . . . .
I generally:
Float for 20-30 minutes
Transfer fish and water into a clean bucket
Then . . . .
Measure the Ph, salinity and temperature of the bag water. If you can, make up some water in a container that has exactly the same measurements as the bag readings and move the fish right over, then you can add a cup of tank water to bucket every 15 mins 6 times (almost 1.5 hours)
Then check salinity in bucket and compare to tank. If no match or very close, add a cup of water every few mins until youve reached salinity and trap fish in same cup and pour off water and release into display. Release under LOW light before lights out.

This is @Jay Hemdal recommendation:

Prior to arrival: For animals that are shipped to the recipient, there is little that the aquarist can do for them prior to their arrival. For animals transported by the aquarist themselves, some steps can be taken to minimize transport stress:

Always transport fish in the dark, avoid the urge to constantly open the shipping container to “check on them”.
For transport times longer than 45 minutes, supplemental aeration or oxygen should be used.
Depending on the length of time the animals will be transported, and the time of the year, heat or cool packs may be needed to maintain a proper water temperature.
It should go without saying, but avoid any sudden movements of the transport container. Not only can this stress the fish, physical injury can occur as the fish bumps into the side of the container as the water sloshes back and forth.
Remember that mortality of fish during a shipment is not constant through the transport time; it is actually highly skewed to the very end of the shipping time. This means that any delay can dramatically increase animal loss. It’s important that you get your new animals home as quickly as possible.

Physical acclimation: Once the fish arrive at their destination, they should then be acclimated to an appropriate quarantine tank. The best general acclimation procedure is as follows:

Step 1. In as dim of a light as feasible, remove any outer bags, paper layers and the like, and float the still sealed inner plastic bag in the receiving tank until the temperatures of the tank and bag are within one or two degrees of each other. This usually takes only ten to fifteen minutes. Fish that have been chilled during shipment need to be acclimated back up to a proper temperature at same the 10 to 15 minute rate, there is absolutely no justification for taking longer than this.

Step 2. Sample the water in each bag for pH and specific gravity (if marine). If the transport time has been greater than 36 hours, you can presume the pH will be low and the ammonia level will be very high. Acclimating for these long duration shipments will be covered in the second part of this article. If the specific gravity of the shipping bag is
.004 or more lower than the quarantine tank, special care must also be taken; and this also is addressed in the second part of the article.

Step 3. Open each bag, and turn the top down to form a floatation collar. Remove as much of the shipping water as you can while still keeping the fish in a comfortable volume of water. This step is very important, as it directly affects how much aquarium water will be need to be used during the rest of the process. Begin the water mixing process:

a) Add 25% tank water to the bag (water is now 20% equilibrated). Wait five minutes.
b) Remove water from bag to reduce it back to its starting volume, add 50% tank water to the bag (water is now 47% equilibrated). Wait five minutes.
c) Remove water from the bag to again reduce to starting volume and add 100%
tank water (bag is now 73% equilibrated). Wait five minutes.
These addition amounts creates a relatively stable 25% change between steps and only uses 175% of the original bag volume in water. The time interval chosen is the way to control the overall acclimation rate. For routine acclimations, an interval of five minutes between steps is appropriate. To slow down the acclimation rate, a time interval of ten minutes could be used (but supplementary aeration would be necessary). Adding more steps to this process (by say, starting with a 20% addition and doubling that each time) ends up using 300% tank water, for very little added benefit.

Step 4. Prepare to release the specimen into tank.
Check the acclimation water parameters to ensure they are close to that of the destination tank (pH within .2 units, temperature within 1 degree and specific gravity within .0005 units. If parameters within that range, the animals can now be released into the quarantine tank. Most aquarists avoid letting any of the acclimation water enter their tank.
If the animal has been released into a tank housing other fish, the next 24 hours are critical concerning compatibility. Watch the animal for at least 15 minutes after its release for any problems. Continue to check in on the animal at least every hour for signs of incompatibility (if other fish are in the tank with it) during the first day. If you notice any sign of aggression, be sure to adjust your monitoring schedule accordingly, and separate the animals promptly if the problem becomes serious as shown by ripped fins or missing scales.

vetteguy53081 · May 30, 2023

katsreef said:
I thought maybe it just added to the stress- not doing the actual killing. This helped me feel better about the other fish in my tank being safe though!

I should clarify, ammonia can cause gills issues , but dont think it played a role here as you would have seen other signs. High ammonia reduces oxygen, affects a fish's skin, eyes, and respiratory rate. I believe the thinness of fish suggests it was not eating and even feeding off its liver which is a common issue with these blennies

ReefDreamz · May 30, 2023

katsreef said:
All my other fish are fine so I thought maybe it was the stress of the change in water on top of the stress of being new to the tank. I hope the treatment works for you! I'm excited to have all my bryopsis gone lol

I have (had) bryopsis and GHA. So far the Reef Flux has totally killed the bryopsis but the GHA hasn't really changed yet. I've heard it takes 2 to 3 weeks though so still hopeful.

Jay Hemdal · May 30, 2023

IMO - shipping/acclimation issues aren’t in play here, as the fish was added to the tank and ate well for two days before going downhill. Shipping/acclimation issues would show up right away and not have a delayed response like that.
Jay

katsreef · May 30, 2023

Jay Hemdal said:
IMO - shipping/acclimation issues aren’t in play here, as the fish was added to the tank and ate well for two days before going downhill. Shipping/acclimation issues would show up right away and not have a delayed response like that.
Jay

Maybe it was a weak fish to begin with then? Because everything else looks great in the tank. I'm just confused