Opinions on Kalk stirrer and dosing as primary means of pH/Alk/Ca? This vid changed my view of it but want input from others.

[Nburg's Reef]

So I was doing some reef chores this weekend, and running random YouTube vids in the background to maybe pic up tips or other's experiences, and this video came on and the guy runs his tank pH at 8.5 - 8.8 and his corals look amazing. He said his primary source of Alk/Ca is a kalk stirrer dosing system and uses 2 part as a backup but hasn't had to use the 2 part system yet



If you watch the vid, his explanation seems plausible and his system looks impeccable (although heavy blue). I have read somewhere that really high pH may be bad for fish tho, but wonder if that's based on chemical additions rather than reducing CO2 in the tank? Not sure, but either way, if kalk dosing can be this easy and keep pH up, sign me up!

I live in a LEED certified condo apartment building so when the windows are closed, its pretty sealed pretty tight. I want to borrow a CO2 monitor from work to test what it gets to in here in the winter, but I can tell you that I can look at my pH graph and tell you how many people were in the apartment that day if my CO2 scrubber isn't recently refreshed. I use a CO2 scrubber to keep thing up when I can, but have to take it off line when we are out of town because pH naturally gets up to 8.4. unfortunately, there is no way to run a line from outside into the skimmer, and I'm not sure I would want DC air in a busy part of town to be constantly pumped into the tank. If I can forgo the CO2 scrubber and use a kalk stirrer, that would be nice... as an added bonus I believe @Randy Holmes-Farley mentioned that it precipitates phosphate from the water too, which I would like!

In the 15 years of reefing, I've only used kalk to kill pests, but it seems some may be starting to really get back into kalk dosing for ion replenishment.

Thoughts and experience using kalk as a pH/alk/Ca source?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I used only limewater (kalkwasser) for 20 years. My pH ran 8.3 to 8.55. Not sure how he can get the pH that high unless aeration is on the low side.

I have a couple of two part recipes using sodium hydroxide that give the same kick as limewater, so those can be a reasonable high pH choice if limewater potency runs out at the evaporation limit.

 

[Nburg's Reef]

Do you run it in the ATO? I was thinking of a reactor to have a steady dose and not worry about the variation of ATO as my evap fluctuates a lot.

Sounds like he also does a CO2 scrubber recirculating thru the skimmer as well.

 

[Nanojoe]

Following

 

[bradleym]

I'm using a repurposed calcium reactor as a limewater doser. It stirs for a few minutes every even hour and then doses from the top of the mix every odd hour. My alk is 10/11, my ph averages 8.2, and my corals have been very happy for the last few months I've been doing kalk dosing.

 

[johnz7]

What Kalk stirrers do you all recommend?

 

[bradleym]

What Kalk stirrers do you all recommend?

The magnetic stirrers are the best from what I've heard, but I'm cheap, and so a recirculating pump does the job, as long as the mix settles before I dose the tank.

 

[ReefCheef]

I used only limewater (kalkwasser) for 20 years. My pH ran 8.3 to 8.55. Not sure how he can get the pH that high unless aeration is on the low side.

I have a couple of two part recipes using sodium hydroxide that give the same kick as limewater, so those can be a reasonable high pH choice if limewater potency runs out at the evaporation limit.

Do you happen to have an article on your approach to limewater?

 

[Rjramos]

This is the latest thing, maintaining pH greater than 8.4. Lots of info lately on CO2 scrubbers and kalk stirrers with constant supply from ato tank, and monitoring and maintaining the pH of the kalk around 11. Avast marine makes a nice kalk stirrer.

 

[Nanojoe]

Do you happen to have an article on your approach to limewater?

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php

 

[Rjramos]

I used only limewater (kalkwasser) for 20 years. My pH ran 8.3 to 8.55. Not sure how he can get the pH that high unless aeration is on the low side.

I have a couple of two part recipes using sodium hydroxide that give the same kick as limewater, so those can be a reasonable high pH choice if limewater potency runs out at the evaporation limit.

You lost me, less aeration would lead to higher pH? I thought more aeration would remove more CO2 from the water and allow pH to increase more.
No thanks on the sodium hydroxide Randy, I’ll stick to the calcium form, less caustic from what I’ve heard.

 

[Nburg's Reef]

If I do the kalk route, I may opt for the Avast marine DIY kit, which ends up being significantly cheaper if you're cool with assembly

 

[Nburg's Reef]

You lost me, less aeration would lead to higher pH? I thought more aeration would remove more CO2 from the water and allow pH to increase more.
No thanks on the sodium hydroxide Randy, I’ll stick to the calcium form, less caustic from what I’ve heard.

I think what he is referring to is that more aeration would introduce more atmospheric CO2 which would stabilize the pH lower than what the guy in the video is getting.

 

[Rjramos]

Where can you buy the DIY kit, avast? BRS doesn’t have that option.

If I do the kalk route, I may opt for the Avast marine DIY kit, which ends up being significantly cheaper if you're cool with assembly

 

[Nburg's Reef]

Where can you buy the DIY kit, avast? BRS doesn’t have that option.

Direct from them: https://www.avastmarine.com/products/kalk-stirrer-kit

 

[HuduVudu]

I live in a LEED certified condo apartment building so when the windows are closed, its pretty sealed pretty tight.

ERV ftw.

They are very good at keeping the heat/cool in and the CO2 out.

 

[HuduVudu]

Stripping the water of CO2 seems an interesting way of keeping up PH.

Will have to ponder that idea.

 

[HuduVudu]

Thoughts and experience using kalk as a pH/alk/Ca source?

Had to think about the video that you posted for a bit.

This system is very interesting for sure. It definitely isn't what it seems.

The skimmer is the base of how the system works. It is the way that the CO2 is stripped from the water. The skimmer isn't really used here for nutrient export though it will perform that job. The main goal for this skimmer is to ensure air that is heavily depleted of CO2 is in constant contact with the tank's water. The effect of this is to outgas CO2 from the tank water to below ambient CO2 levels. Recirculating this through the CO2 medium means that CO2 is constantly pulled from the system and that the injected air remains constantly low on CO2.

Ok, why do this? By dropping the CO2 levels very low in the tank water and then dosing Kalk you ensure that the hydroxl ion (-OH or base) does not react with the hydrogen ion from the carbonic acid, the normal path for carbonate when using Kalk. Low to no CO2 means low to no carbonic acid. This will beef up the PH because the hydroxl ion is not reacting with the carbonic acid to give you alkalinity i.e. carbonate. This will give you unnaturally high PH, and a lower alkalinity. This lets you move more kalk into the system because you are not running up against accumulated carbonate in the system.

Some notes on things seen in the video. He is using a UV sterilizer. This is not for disease this is for algae managment. This system is going to limit algae pretty heavily because it will not have a carbon source through the normal CO2 levels. This is relevant because as he states the phosphates are very high. If for any reason the CO2 in the tank rises, the algaes are no longer going to be CO2 limited and they will quickly get out of hand. The sterilizer is the first line of defense if this should occur. You will note in the video that there is no corralline. This is the effect of the low CO2.

Though this system seems like it would be ideal, in that algae growth is severly curtailed, the PH is very high and you can just use kalk for supplementation, it is balanced very carefully on the skimmer and CO2 absorbing media keep the dissolved CO2 from the water. If this mechanism fails in any way the system will crash. I think it would depend on the length of time that the mechanism is down for how hard it would crash. My guess is that if the system is down too long it could be catastrophic. I am not sure in this area, because re-application of the low CO2 in the water would perhaps end the bloom quickly. Just making some educated guesses here.

Not sure I would implement this system it seems to be very monlithic.

My 2 cents on this system.

 

[Shooter6]

Avast kalk stirrer in my opinion is the best, if you want a stirrer. It's a continuous duty stirrer unlike the magnet ones. This combined with the kamoer x1 pro t set on continuous dose is how I'm running mine.

 

[CayeCaulker]

PH at those levels that stable is amazing. Using a calk stirrer is also on the knife's edge. Seems to really work for him. I am not even wet yet let alone ready for that kind of calcium update. It will be a long time before I am ready for a solution. I am interested in how others have success with it. I am sure as the Trail Blazers like him get others interested in this manufacturers will come up with products to make it easy. Just look at all the calcium eaters in that system. I bet his Ca uptake is insane!

I really like that guy in the video. Total coral nerd. I wish he lived closer to me.

He brought up some real good points. The par levels with circulation and nutrients. How running high par requires more flow and a high nutrient level to keep the corals happy. That makes good sense. I never thought about it in this way but nutrients are probably really important at 800 par. He also mentioned the balance in the nutrient levels. How you can have high nutrients as long as they are in balance. He has tweaked all this along with stable PH to maximize growth. Total razors edge. A lot can be learned from his experience.

I loved his grow tank. Perfect height and he can just reach in. That is amazing. The lighting solution is amazing as well. Perfect for that kind of setup. I think his nutrient levels and PH are all on the razors edge and he has that thank setup for nothing but grow not for a show. I don't see myself running nutrient levels that high but like he mentioned the balance plays a big role. The coral obviously loves what he is giving it. This guy has really dialed in maximum growth husbandry. He sells those frags online and I checked out his website.