Prozipro Fish sensitivity

[lion king]

Same thing that happened to the porc, at this point certainly no time to waste, I would give gc a go immediately. While gc isn't as effective on flukes as prazi pro, it does contain praziquantel and will knock them down. If effective on whats happening I've seen lion's appetite return within a day or two. Still trying to figure out the vehicle and you did say none of the other fish are affected, right. Sure the porc and lion didn't get into the same source of food. I am not as familiar with bacterial sources as I'm sure Jay will be around shortly.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@lion king @Jay Hemdal

New development. He wouldn’t cooperate for better photos but both his eyes are beginning to cloud. I can’t find any meds locally. I could have GC here Saturday from Amazon, local store only has enough to treat about a 1/2 dose that I could get today

I’m worried about the tentative fluke diagnosis. The species that causes cloudy eyes is Neobenedenia. It is pretty common in marine aquarium fish, including lions. However, like I said, it doesn’t put fish off their feed until the end. Also, for long term infections, other fish in the same tank wound have it by now.
You can treat with prazi, as it is pretty safe, but it may not work in this case…..

Jay

 

[LouisianaReef]

Same thing that happened to the porc, at this point certainly no time to waste, I would give gc a go immediately. While gc isn't as effective on flukes as prazi pro, it does contain praziquantel and will knock them down. If effective on whats happening I've seen lion's appetite return within a day or two. Still trying to figure out the vehicle and you did say none of the other fish are affected, right. Sure the porc and lion didn't get into the same source of food. I am not as familiar with bacterial sources as I'm sure Jay will be around shortly.

They didn’t share a food source. No other fish show any symptoms and the Lion didn’t start until after the porc. Really going out there that maybe since the porc started with symptoms first he was a carrier of something that the lion got ??? I’m at a lost

 

[LouisianaReef]

I’m worried about the tentative fluke diagnosis. The species that causes cloudy eyes is Neobenedenia. It is pretty common in marine aquarium fish, including lions. However, like I said, it doesn’t put fish off their feed until the end. Also, for long term infections, other fish in the same tank wound have it by now.
You can treat with prazi, as it is pretty safe, but it may not work in this case…..

Jay

I ordered some GC from Amazon to attempt to treat. I’m just not sure what else to do

 

[lion king]

They didn’t share a food source. No other fish show any symptoms and the Lion didn’t start until after the porc. Really going out there that maybe since the porc starith symptoms first he was a carrier of something that the lion got ??? I’m at a lost

Here's my confusion, he hasn't presented with any of the other symptoms of flukes, and the other fish would also get those. Was the porc a recent addition, you said the lion had been with you 6 months, so now with the cloudy eyes it's not a toxin like I previously mentioned. If the porc brought something in, the lion just could have been the weakest in the tank, but if it is something like flukes, the rest will get also get it. I don't see any signs of a protazoan. The porc would just as happily eat something live just as the lion, that's why I keep going back to a food source, and going off feeding would be the 1st sign.

 

[lion king]

I ordered some GC from Amazon to attempt to treat. I’m just not sure what else to do

Hopefully you start treatment very quickly.

 

[LouisianaReef]

Here's my confusion, he hasn't presented with any of the other symptoms of flukes, and the other fish would also get those. Was the porc a recent addition, you said the lion had been with you 6 months, so now with the cloudy eyes it's not a toxin like I previously mentioned. If the porc brought something in, the lion just could have been the weakest in the tank, but if it is something like flukes, the rest will get also get it. I don't see any signs of a protazoan. The porc would just as happily eat something live just as the lion, that's why I keep going back to a food source, and going off feeding would be the 1st sign.

I have never feed live to anything in the tank. They are all in temp holding awaiting their new 450 gallon tank to arrive. I’m hoping that I can get control of this before i lose the Lion. A 12” Lion isn’t easy to come across.

Hopefully you start treatment very quickly.

The quickest I can get the proper dosage of GC is Saturday. The LFS has enough to do half of the first dose but that’s all they have. I believe they said they have some kanaplex in stock, I don’t know if that would do any good

 

[lion king]

I have never feed live to anything in the tank. They are all in temp holding awaiting their new 450 gallon tank to arrive. I’m hoping that I can get control of this before i lose the Lion. A 12” Lion isn’t easy to come across.


The quickest I can get the proper dosage of GC is Saturday. The LFS has enough to do half of the first dose but that’s all they have. I believe they said they have some kanaplex in stock, I don’t know if that would do any good

Kanaplex is a broad spectrum antibiotic and would work towards something if it were bacterial. The problem is to be effective, an antibiotic really needs to administered in a hospital tank. Dosing in a tank with porous material will negate any chance at a proper dose.

 

[LouisianaReef]

Kanaplex is a broad spectrum antibiotic and would work towards something if it were bacterial. The problem is to be effective, an antibiotic really needs to administered in a hospital tank. Dosing in a tank with porous material will negate any chance at a proper dose.

Hopefully the GC gets here soon enough and is effective. Doesn’t sound like I have many options. I doubt the half dose of GC that I can get locally would do anything

 

[LouisianaReef]

Evening time check and he has developed something along was body. Also found a unicorn tang dead and seen no signs of illness as this morning with him and he happily ate day before yesterday.

 

[LouisianaReef]

Just feed, other than the unicorn tang that passed and the Lion, everyone is eating and looking fine. The shark and ray also had their weekly Mazuri Shark & Ray Supplement

 

[lion king]

Evening time check and he has developed something along was body. Also found a unicorn tang dead and seen no signs of illness as this morning with him and he happily ate day before yesterday.

Does it look red, inflamed, at the base of the spines. The pics aren't super clear, could there also be some spines missing or tissue damage or missing along the spines. If thats the case, there could have been an injury usually during netting. It could have happened a while back and it took this long to advance. This type of injury usually comes with a bacterial infection. If this isn't treated right away, like when it happens, it is usually to late and terminal. The infection becomes internal, and does track with the cloudy eyes. That's if I am seeing what I think I am seeing, hard to tell in the pics. The other 2 fish deaths would be completely unrelated unless the other fish also had injuries. Bacterial infections will advance based on water quality.

 

[LouisianaReef]

Honestly it doesn’t look red to me, more like his slime coat is aggravated if you know what I mean. Since all the fish are waiting to go into a new tank I think the best thing to do the treat it as if they are in QT and treat all of them. I have already ordered GC and prozipro so I think that I am going to treat with both regardless if he makes it or not as a precaution before they are move to the new system. One med at a time of course. Hopefully that will help ensure fish health in the future.

 

[lion king]

Honestly it doesn’t look red to me, more like his slime coat is aggravated if you know what I mean. Since all the fish are waiting to go into a new tank I think the best thing to do the treat it as if they are in QT and treat all of them. I have already ordered GC and prozipro so I think that I am going to treat with both regardless if he makes it or not as a precaution before they are move to the new system. One med at a time of course. Hopefully that will help ensure fish health in the future.

What you are describing may be shedding, which is something lions will do. They usually do it when there is a disruption in the water conditions/chemistry or they are being attacked from protazoan or external parasites. Under normal conditions they may shed early on balancing to new water conditions and during this time eyes can also get cloudy. After six months if they shed you really shouldn't notice it if all is well. You have something going on that is too complicated for me to understand. I would lean back to ammonia, or even Ammonia spikes which come and go. Gorge feeders in turn will dump alot of waste all at once and produce ammonia spikes routinely which the biological filter isn't large enough or mature enough.

 

[LouisianaReef]

I’m really not sure honestly. Ammonia read somewhere around .25 or undetectable, the API color charts are horrible. Lion the laying in the bottom of the tank this morning. I expect him to pass soon. As of this time no other fish, the bamboo shark, the ray or the eel are showing any signs and all ate well last night.

I’m not sure what I’m next move should be. The new tank will be here Nov 3 so I have time to medicate the remaining fish to ensure they are healthy before moving them. Considering running a course of prozipro, followed by GC mostly as a precaution for the remaining fish.

@Jay Hemdal do you have any ideas or recommendations? Would you agree with running the meds? I obviously have something going on.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’m really not sure honestly. Ammonia read somewhere around .25 or undetectable, the API color charts are horrible. Lion the laying in the bottom of the tank this morning. I expect him to pass soon. As of this time no other fish, the bamboo shark, the ray or the eel are showing any signs and all ate well last night.

I’m not sure what I’m next move should be. The new tank will be here Nov 3 so I have time to medicate the remaining fish to ensure they are healthy before moving them. Considering running a course of prozipro, followed by GC mostly as a precaution for the remaining fish.

@Jay Hemdal do you have any ideas or recommendations? Would you agree with running the meds? I obviously have something going on.

I'm still worried that this is a protozoan infection (perhaps bacterial, but that is rarer) and not a flukes issue.

In my case, I would do a skin scrape on the lionfish (carefully of course) and look at the mucus under a microscope - that can tell right away if it is flukes vs. protozoans. I understand that folks don't have ready access to microscopes, but there are these:



General Cure has metronidazole in it that helps with protozoan issues, but it is not truly reef safe.

Jay

 

[LouisianaReef]

I'm still worried that this is a protozoan infection (perhaps bacterial, but that is rarer) and not a flukes issue.

In my case, I would do a skin scrape on the lionfish (carefully of course) and look at the mucus under a microscope - that can tell right away if it is flukes vs. protozoans. I understand that folks don't have ready access to microscopes, but there are these:



General Cure has metronidazole in it that helps with protozoan issues, but it is not truly reef safe.

Jay

I don’t have a microscope and it would be Monday before I could probably get my hands on anything like one. There are a few hermits and leather corals in the system that could easily be removed. Would you agree with treating with prozipro immediately as precaution for the other livestock?

 

[LouisianaReef]

I don’t have a microscope and it would be Monday before I could probably get my hands on anything like one. There are a few hermits and leather corals in the system that could easily be removed. Would you agree with treating with prozipro immediately as precaution for the other livestock?

@Jay Hemdal @lion king as I suspected the lion didn’t make it. Those pictures are fresh death. Almost appears that scales are missing along his body. I was able to get GC and prozipro today. Should either be used as precaution for the remaining fish?

 

[lion king]

Looks bacterial to me, everything I've mentioned so far would be in reference to what I know about lions. There's definitely a larger picture that is beyond my expertise.

 

[LouisianaReef]

Looks bacterial to me, everything I've mentioned so far would be in reference to what I know about lions. There's definitely a larger picture that is beyond my expertise.

I’m lost at what I should do to prevent more deaths. I think at this point it would be best to treat the remaining fish as they are affected and do a full course of meds like in QT situation. I have GC and prozipro that I can use. I believe copper treatments are not safe for sharks, rays and eel if I remember correctly.