Purple bonsai not coloring up

[dodgerblew]

I'm not trying to be a jerk here but can't understand why people think "their" parameters are better than the ocean! Lololol

just reading through this not to comment but maybe read different views and gain knowledge.

When I read a sentence like this and then it ends with lolol, to me you come off as arrogant, condescending and disrespectful. People are stating their views. Just my opinion

 

[Pappy]

Lol

WWC runs their tanks at 30-40ppm NO3

Battlecorals has his PO4 at around .18ppm PO4

Tons of other examples

This isn't 2003 anymore.

Hmmmmm wwc runs bare bottom that must be because they wanna keep no3 so high. I'll have to ask

As far as your other comment. Elevated no3 does not keep po4 down. Adding no3 helps to balance po4 yes.

Just for the sake of argument do you have any fts and/or progress pics? Just curious. I always consider the source is all

 

[Lazys Coral House]

Just for the sake of argument do you have any fts and/or progress pics? Just curious. I always consider the source is all

Sure, here ya go.


1/05/14

1/04/15

 

[Pappy]

just reading through this not to comment but maybe read different views and gain knowledge.

When I read a sentence like this and then it ends with lolol, to me you come off as arrogant, condescending and disrespectful. People are stating their views. Just my opinion

I appreciate your input and often writing on a computer is hard to interpret without lack of inflection. The lolol was me laughing literally. I'm not being arrogant I just literally find it funny when people think their method is better than what has already been scientifically proven. "Our" tweaking of parameters is nothing but us trying to be better than Mother Nature.

Shouldn't our goal be to mimick that natural environment these animals come from versus playing God? Nsw levels of no3 are undetectable meaning 0 and po4 undetectable by our measuring instruments (.0005 to be exact) 0.

So is it not laughable when someone thinks anything over the parameters of the ocean?

 

[Lazys Coral House]

@lazylivin
What do you mean achieve color? Is there anything I should be putting in the water to make the color come out?

Yes you can put in nitrates directly. Brightwell sells it. It is called brightwell neo nitro. You can also feed more. Over the years the hobby has begun to really perfect it's biological and mechanical filtration. It has lead to more and more reefs becoming low nutrient even without carbon dosing. Equipment has gotten better as has our configurations. It can take an extraordinary amount of feedings at times to keep nutrients at a detectable level. If you are doing any carbon dosing stop that. Slow your dosing of salts to bring the level down a bit and feed more. It may take a couple months to really see some nutrients on your test kits but keep at it and they will eventually come. Your fish will appreciate the extra food as will the macrofauna in your reef. The first indication will be more colorful corals.

 

[jdl513]

Some nitrate and phosphate are needed to for cellular growth including the zooanthelia that live in coral tissue.
These are present in low concentrations on reefs relative to what we see on land but they are there.
Most displays have to work to keep the concentrations low like a reef but some displays are so "clean" they are actually lower.

Ideally I like to see 2- 5 ppm for nitrate and 0.03 - 0.1 ppm for phosphate but that's just me.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Wow, can we get some pics? 13 people commenting on what they think but there are no pictures to see what's actually going on. I don't think its easy to give advice when given only parameters and a statement of a problem.

 

[Pappy]

Sure, here ya go.


1/05/14

1/04/15

Epic tank dude! I only wish I had the camera skills you did. Color could definitely be better imo fwiw Insane growth though!

 

[dodgerblew]

I appreciate your input and often writing on a computer is hard to interpret without lack of inflection. The lolol was me laughing literally. I'm not being arrogant I just literally find it funny when people think their method is better than what has already been scientifically proven. "Our" tweaking of parameters is nothing but us trying to be better than Mother Nature.

Shouldn't our goal be to mimick that natural environment these animals come from versus playing God? Nsw levels of no3 are undetectable meaning 0 and po4 undetectable by our measuring instruments (.0005 to be exact) 0.

So is it not laughable when someone thinks anything over the parameters of the ocean?

this isn't what the thread is about and I don't want to derail it from its intended purpose. The only comment I have is that taking a perfect ecosystem, the ocean, and trying to recreate it on a small scale in a glass or acrylic box with the oceans natural water parameters, oceans natural flow patterns, oceans lighting and natures placement of its inhabitants vs our artificial attempts is more about playing God to mimick the natural environment than one vs the other. I think when we attempt to recreate on a small scale what occurs naturally on a massive scale there will be low and high level changes that can both be good and bad for the environment. Something's obviously working for many different and successful aquarists so I can accept all viewpoints. My personal position is the common denominator to hobbyists like yourself who feel any number of >0 is unnatural and those that feel numbers slightly >0 is good and natural is stability. I think stability is what gets us the most success.

To the OP, I am successfully keeping both the Garf Bonsai and the Tyree Tricolor, both from 1" frags, the garf from a local and the Tyree from Copps. They're both intensely colored, growing at a decent rate and have very good PE. I don't know my parameters completely. I know dKH (fluctuates between 7-8) Ca (~440) and Mg (~1350). I run t5. Both corals are placed midway in tank (60 cube, 24" tall and fixture ~8" above waterline. They both get good flow. Good luck with yours.

 

[dodgerblew]

Epic tank dude! I only wish I had the camera skills you did. Color could definitely be better imo fwiw Insane growth though!

beautiful tank. Love the M.I.!

 

[tonymission]

I'm not trying to copy the ocean exactly. I'm trying to get corals to be as bright and colorful as possible.
If it was all about having exact parameters of the ocean then all the salt brands would mix right at NSW levels when obviously they don't.

I'm not trying to prove anything or convince anyone of anything. I don't have the time or willingness to put together some big study telling you why this works for me. Why? Because it works for me. It's up to those reading if they want to try it out. Obviously I'm not alone in my thoughts. Most people know a sterile tank is not good for its inhabitants. That's common knowledge I thought.

 

[hinovak]

Someone wanted pics? I suck at pics, but you get the gist.

 

[hinovak]

This tank is full of red bugs to boot. No photo filter. Do not let the negative Nancies get you down. it just takes a little experimenting, everyone has issues, this tank has alage issues as well.

 

[hinovak]

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I was talking about pics of the op's purple bonsai colonies. So we can see what it looks like, to give some decent advice. Is there a purple bonsai in your photos hinovak?

 

[hinovak]

Yeah, sorry, realized that was what you were referring to after posting....yes I have 4 valida guys in my system

 

[that Reef Guy]

Try lowering your alk and mg to recommended parameters and see if that helps.

Also no coral "likes" no3 not sure where that comment came from

Softies like Zoanthids and Mushrooms do.

That is why you always see people saying Zoanthids like a "Dirty Tank"

And you do not want it to be Zero (Low Yes but never Zero as it Starves Corals).

 

[that Reef Guy]

Lol

WWC runs their tanks at 30-40ppm NO3

Battlecorals has his PO4 at around .18ppm PO4

Tons of other examples

This isn't 2003 anymore.

Wow that seems High.

Does Worldwide Corals run their SPS Tanks at 30-40 Nitrate?

Or just their Zoanthid Tanks?

 

[Chameleon]

I'm not going to add to the ongoing debate, but I'll put my thoughts in to help the OP. I think your corals are suffering from a lack of available nutrients. Zooxanthellae driven photosynthesis is a great way to sequester carbon from CO2 which is always present in our tanks, but nitrogen and phosphate must come from food. For many the association with higher detectable levels of nitrate and phosphate correlates with the ability of the coral to sequester it, hence many will say you want at least detectable levels of these nutrients. In other systems undetectable levels is still enough to help the coral thrive. It really comes down to a dynamic interplay between different conversions of the nutrients in various biosynthetic pathways and that is why a one size fits all doesn't work when it comes to nutrient levels and reefing. Bioloads, biodiversity, feeding habits, nutrient import/export all play largely into how a tank will show nutrient levels on a test kit. Keeping in mind that phosphate does inhibit the calcification reaction, little is known about the bioavailability of dissolved phosphate and coral.

Anecdotally my tank has slower growth but more color when I dont run GFO and have a little algae here and there. When I run GFO and am algae free sometimes the growth is faster for a bit, but I have correlated this with increased sensitivity of my coral and sometimes coral death. If I were to put forth a hypothesis I would say the coral are growing off nutrient reserves when I tip my tank towards ULNS, and when the nutrient reserves run out they are more sensitive and less resilient. Other people do just fine running ULNS all the time, but most likely have other factors at play that aid in coral receiving the necessary nutrients.

 

[Pappy]

I just want to say that both battle corals and wwc got back to me and they do in fact keep their tanks at .18 po4 and wwc says 30ppm no3.....

BUT wwc said it isn't the no3 they like but the 3 times a day heavy feeding that they do the corals love.

So I am sticking to my point of its not the no3 and po4 corals actually like. Ideally it's all about import and export. I feed very heavily, my corals glow, but yet I have 0 po4 and 0 no3. They like the food not the high parameters.