Radium vs Hamilton 20k spectrum

[hybridazn]

This is my tank with electronic ballasts. As you can see, I have no need to nit-pick over details like this ballast or that. The results are fine.

The point of using an m80 ballast with the 250w radiums is not really much for color to the eye but to make sure we get the proper life and par from the bulbs. On a m80 ballast a radium should last about 14+months with no significant drop in par, compared to under a year on a electronic ballast that will underdrive the bulb severely.

 

[hybridazn]

Hi Dana and others,
So my tank was featured on a Hamilton web page which ended up giving me a chance to try out their 20k MH 250w bulbs.
I used the spectrometer that Dana had suggested to me, to compare the rightly famous Radium 250w and the Hamilton.
Using a hydroponic no-name electronic ballast and an aluminum German no-name hydroponic reflector I set up the sensor 12" below the bulbs.
The only "flaw" is the Radium has been in use for about 120hrs and the Hamilton about 4 hours.
I think the plot will show nevertheless you can save yourself $20/bulb and just buy the lesser known Hamilton over the Radium since even with a proper burn in I bet these bulbs will give similar results.

Thank you for taking the time to do this, but my only let down with it is I feel the radium brought a knife to a gun fight. The chart shows that both bulbs are similar in production but the radium is being severely underdriven thus putting a damper on par output and bulb sustainability.

It would make an interesting rebuttal to see both bulbs on a magnetic ballast.

 

[Abhishek]

For corals and a good bulb worthless.
(my pic is enough For me to not worry about it)
If you read Dana's research you will find corals do not need much PAR to do well. As for spectrum, the spectrum of a Radium on an electronic ballast is perfectly fine.
For life of a bulb probably better on bulb manufacturer ballast.
Btw, I'm a little surprised how a guy takes the time and money to buy a spectrometer, post the results with the intentions to show a cheaper bulb will do the trick. And the subsequently dismantled to instead focus on a ballast which is not applicable in this case.
It reminds me of why 99% of the time I just work with hobbyists hands on and not online. Tip of the hat to those patient enough to deal with this.

First of all question is about spectrum right and not PAR. Or which provides highest PAR because if its PAR in 250 watts, neither radium nor hamilton would touch a xm 10k by a pole .

I think you are just getting defensive unnecessarily . No body is trying to undermine the effort you ha e put in documenting the spectrum between radium and Hamilton .And definitely your tank is amazing and very beautiful !!!

Everyone is trying to make the same point - if you are comparing 2 bulbs in terms of a spectrum graph , why not run them with the manufacturer recommended ballast of m80 for radium .
If you do not have access to m80 it's fine , no worries !!!! But getting defensive about it , loosing patience when people are only trying to help you in your study makes the whole point of sharing your result quite futile !!!

Keeping acropora is all about patience right, not loosing it easily .

If you think of all the advice here as constructive feedback and opportunity for you to perfect your study rather than criticism , it would make reefing and learning even sweeter .

And once you are calmed down, see the website below by Sanjay for comparison of spectrum of various halide bulbs on various ballasts . Sadly, its not greatly up to date with the latest ballasts I think like Luxcore and Reefbrite but covers more than 90% needs .

https://reefs.com/lighting/#1452099741379-028bedcb-ac31

Cheer up mate !!! It's the amazing world of reefing . Extremely sorry if I have sounded offensive and hereon, I would refrain from replying in this thread.

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[BoomCorals]

Yes, the Radium should run on the M80. Some say the electronic ballast won't drive the bulb properly. I'm not sure if the comparison was fair that way...
Would be good to publish the ballast's info also. That is a huge part of such project.
Very interesting..
Grandis.

For what it’s worth the radiums seem to be working extremely well on my luxcore electronic ballasts. I’ve been driving them to 450w.

 

[cilyjr]

Hi Dana and others,
So my tank was featured on a Hamilton web page which ended up giving me a chance to try out their 20k MH 250w bulbs.
I used the spectrometer that Dana had suggested to me, to compare the rightly famous Radium 250w and the Hamilton.
Using a hydroponic no-name electronic ballast and an aluminum German no-name hydroponic reflector I set up the sensor 12" below the bulbs.
The only "flaw" is the Radium has been in use for about 120hrs and the Hamilton about 4 hours.
I think the plot will show nevertheless you can save yourself $20/bulb and just buy the lesser known Hamilton over the Radium since even with a proper burn in I bet these bulbs will give similar results.

Sanjay noted something similar with the Hamilton 14k and radium (which the manufacturer never states 20k, they call it the aquastarblue blue) about 10 years ago. I use both the radium and the Hamilton 14k. And find the Hamilton a bit more crisp and to my liking. The tank inhabitants seem happy with either.

http://www.m-fine.com/spect3.bmp

 

[A. grandis]

For what it’s worth the radiums seem to be working extremely well on my luxcore electronic ballasts. I’ve been driving them to 450w.

Yeah, I know that, Boom. If I would be able to set up a system today with halides I would get the Luxcore too.
I was just thinking of giving the info here for the sake of the tread.
We all understand the comparison and appreciate the post! At least I do.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Sanjay noted something similar with the Hamilton 14k and radium (which the manufacturer never states 20k, they call it the aquastarblue blue) about 10 years ago. I use both the radium and the Hamilton 14k. And find the Hamilton a bit more crisp and to my liking. The tank inhabitants seem happy with either.

http://www.m-fine.com/spect3.bmp

Thanks for your notes!
Oh how I feel like setting up a halide system every time I come here!!
Grandis.

 

[sghera64]

For what it’s worth the radiums seem to be working extremely well on my luxcore electronic ballasts. I’ve been driving them to 450w.

+1

Luxcore HQI setting for a 250W Radium

 

[hybridazn]

To be clear on 400w radiums. They only need a 400w electronic ballast. Running them on turbo or whatever setting is just overdriving them. Thebonly radium bulb that needs the hqi to run to spec is the 250w variant.

 

[cilyjr]

The radium aquastarblue blue bulb (often called 20k) needs 360w for the "400w" bulb so a ballast will overdrive it.

The "250w" on the other hand needs 270w to run properly. So running it on an electronic ballast with an "hqi or superlumen setting" which usually pushes an additional 10% puts it at right around 275. Which is in the ballpark.

 

[Abhishek]

The radium aquastarblue blue bulb (often called 20k) needs 360w for the "400w" bulb so a ballast will overdrive it.

The "250w" on the other hand needs 270w to run properly. So running it on an electronic ballast with an "hqi or superlumen setting" which usually pushes an additional 10% puts it at right around 275. Which is in the ballpark.

I promised not to reply but can't refrain from it !!
may be people will find this article useful for Radium bulb :-

https://premiumaquatics.com/articles/radium

Anyways, the lamp wattage is speced to be run at 270 watts.

On a normal setting of electronic ballast, it will run at 245 watts. On HQI setting, it will draw around 270 watts whereas on M80 , it will draw 33o watts.

I run 2 radiums - one on M80 and one on luxcore on HQI setting on the same tank . Color wise when both are on, you won't find a difference as they mix so very well. It is only when that you look at the bulbs at an angle that you see that even in HQI mode, it is slightly bluer than the M80.

PAR wise - yes , I do find a difference of mere 100-200 on the water surface so am not much worried .

However, I am currently at 12 months on the bulb ran on M80 but had to change the one running on electronic around 11 month mark due to shift in spectrum and it becoming too yellow.

Please remember - all this only for 250 watt radium and 400 watt radium is totally different a story .

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[cilyjr]

I saw that article a while back and I kind of feel like the m80 330w is out of the wall and not accounting for efficency loss from wall to ballast to bulb. I could be wrong on that as it's been a couple years ago when I spent any time thinking about it. Where as there's less loss with the electronic ballasts.

They also mention hqi superlumen at 300 which I would say is also a bit generous. If you look at some old lumatek data they say plus 10% which is 25w if the start is 250 giving a total of 275.

It's all a moot point really. The Germans say the bulb wants a pulse start and 270w. And Germans don't joke when it comes to specs EVER...

 

[Big E]

kevinsquint,

I think the info you shared is great. You're misunderstanding some intentions............you opened up the possibility for others to try the Hamilton bulb on their M80 ballasts(or other ballasts)and save some money if it can give results you have had on your electronic ballast.

Someone will do this based on your thread and hopefully share some results as you have.

Keep sharing your experiences and info, I've always appreciated your input.

 

[Big E]

To be clear on 400w radiums. They only need a 400w electronic ballast. Running them on turbo or whatever setting is just overdriving them. Thebonly radium bulb that needs the hqi to run to spec is the 250w variant.

George,

The 400w Radium wiill work on some electronic ballasts but can be overly blue. To get the crisp look with the high par they did best overdriven on the HQI from PFO. That ballast doesn't exist anymore. Some people may be running a 400w pulse ballast now but you won't get the same results or look.

The 400w radium was the gold standard for years at that time. Over the last 8 years or so people moved to the 250w. It's not as good as the 400w over driven regardless of how you drive it.

There are many substitute ballasts and bulbs that can create similar spectrum graphs as the Radium 400w. I used to use the Reeflux 400w 12K on my Blue line ballasts. It gave me the same ambient look and spectral output. It wasn't the same par monster, but it did well for my setup.

 

[alton]

I love when MH guys argue about something. Looking at the specs hamilton are made to operate on the M58 or electronic ballast, proper ballast helps the lamp last longer. That was the great thing of electronic ballast when I ran MH, Radium lamps lasted an average of 18 months with the longest at 24+, the shortest at 12. I changed them when they dropped 10%. If I still had MH I would give the hamilton a try.

 

[jda]

Help me learn. If a LED person was not using the correct power supply and driver, they would laughed off the forum for doing it wrong. How does this not translate to the correct ballasts for bulbs? Why the cavalier attitudes towards mixing and matching ballasts and bulbs for MH? It is because they still work well even when mixed and matched and the LEDs do not?

 

[oreo54]

Help me learn. If a LED person was not using the correct power supply and driver, they would laughed off the forum for doing it wrong.

The 400w Radium wiill work on some electronic ballasts but can be overly blue. To get the crisp look with the high par they did best overdriven on the HQI from PFO. That ballast doesn't exist anymore. Some people may be running a 400w pulse ballast now but you won't get the same results or look

Led's are just not the same thing like "fidgety" MH's..

 

[mattrefer]

hi everyone.question.i have a hybergrow 165 watt.starting out do i start out at 30%blue 10%white both light on at same time 4hours a day and then gradually build?thanks

 

[Abhishek]

Led's are just not the same thing like "fidgety" MH's..

And the EPIC BATTLE starts !!! "Fidgety" MH ??

Lets not make this thread into a war zone and concentrate on Hamilton vs Radium and not bring leds to the mix.

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[oreo54]

And the EPIC BATTLE starts !!! "Fidgety" MH ??

Lets not make this thread into a war zone and concentrate on Hamilton vs Radium and not bring leds to the mix.

Regards,
Abhishek

Well it was more of a joke than anything else.. A Porsche 911 is more "fidgety" than a Honda Civic..