Reef crystals vs esv - triton test

[hart24601]

It's nice that they are replying. I think that I will use the ESV in my nano only, there are not many inverts in there. My DT has a couple of clams and they can be hard enough to keep alive! That 170g left is going to last a long time in my 14 biocube. I will try out the tropic marin reef salt, I won't test it though - my budget is used up. I don't like the thought of buying metal removing compounds (metasorb, polyfiters and such) and just using them up on freshly made water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I did get another response from ESV:

Thanks so much for providing those batch numbers and bringing this issue to our attention because it provides us with an opportunity to improve our product. I'm going to deal with this from a few different angles which may take some time but I will regularly update you on my progress as I proceed...

Thanks for posting Bob's response. I don't disagree with anything he said.

 

[shred5]

FWIW, many years ago, folks had problems keeping certain inverts with Coralife salt.

Coralife was known at the time to have excessively high levels of both borate and lithium (the lithium in one test by Craig Bingman was about 2x the ESV result in this thread). Larry Jackson (an experienced aquarist) lost one or more starfish after doing a small water change with some Coralife salt, IIRC, and some folks blamed it on the lithium. But I've not seen (but have not really looked in detail) for info on lithium toxicity to marine inverts.

What is funny is there was a test a long time ago that tested most brands out there and a lot of people switched to coralife salt based on that study...
I had nothing but problems with that salt long before that study...
You probably remember it that comparison...

 

[reefwiser]

I think the Lithium is the most interesting finding so far. That this is only showing up in US tank water. I think we will find many interesting issues as we move forward with these test's.

 

[stunreefer]

Bob is the man, glad he's putting some leg work into finding the source. I can say that I've used ESV in over a dozen thriving reef systems for about two years from various batches and we've only seen some pretty amazing results from using this salt. I'll be with Bob in NYC next month and look forward to chatting with him regarding his thoughts.

That would be the best way to check most things, but it cannot be an explanation for the very high levels of lithium or lead seen in the ESV.

:thumb:

 

[hart24601]

I am happy we have an somewhat affordable test now that we can test products we buy. That means we have to be really careful when we submit samples to not give false results. Just something we need to keep in mind, but considering that I used the same water and made the ESV after the RC in the same washed container and pumps I have no doubt the ESV has a lot of lithium in it.

My big knock with the ESV is just I paid a large premium for a low metal salt. $104 for 200g... at over 50 cents per gallon I expect it to deliver on it's claims of low metals - that is the whole reason I bought it! Whether or not that level of lithium is bad for our tanks doesn't matter to me (well ok, it does matter) but the point is that I paid a premium for something that didn't deliver.

 

[Goodgreef]

I'd like to see some tests with just peoples RODI water and see if it is because our water supplies are polluted with it and somehow RODI isn't removing it. Will an RODI unit remove sodium or other salts? I'd guess yes but maybe it doesn't stay bonded to what is removing it and it ends up getting into the salt mix water.

 

[hart24601]

I'd like to see some tests with just peoples RODI water and see if it is because our water supplies are polluted with it and somehow RODI isn't removing it. Will an RODI unit remove sodium or other salts? I'd guess yes but maybe it doesn't stay bonded to what is removing it and it ends up getting into the salt mix water.

That is a good idea, but keep in mind both the salts were made with the same water, so if the ro/do was letting some problems through it would be seen in both mixes.

 

[Goodgreef]

True. It would be interesting to find out though how much if any comes from the RODI. Clearly it appears the levels in the salt mixes themselves differ. People have been saying for years that our water supplies are tainted with flushed meds and even trace meds left over in urine. It would be interesting if lithium in our tanks started as a neighbors pee.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd like to see some tests with just peoples RODI water and see if it is because our water supplies are polluted with it and somehow RODI isn't removing it. Will an RODI unit remove sodium or other salts? I'd guess yes but maybe it doesn't stay bonded to what is removing it and it ends up getting into the salt mix water.

Yes, RO/DI removes all salts (relative to what is possibly in a salt mix) if you are measuring 0 ppm TDS in the water. So the RO/DI is not the source of things like lithium.

 

[ptreef]

holy chemistry 404! haha
Love me some IO!!

 

[Goodgreef]

If it can't be the RODI then perhaps is it that the salt source for domestic salt in the US is different than that from Europe/Asia? I guess we don't know if the previous tests accounted for where the salt was sourced as you pondered earlier.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

Or can it be coming from the alk,cal,mag and other things we dose or from the foods we feed

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Or can it be coming from the alk,cal,mag and other things we dose or from the foods we feed

It could be. I noted it is in some calcium supplements I tested, but it is also apparently in many salt mixes at levels similar to RC (not as high as ESV, at least not that I've seen).

 

[Thales]

I would suggest that anyone having good results in their tanks change nothing based on any salt mix test results. Every time there has been some salt mix testing, some people seem to think that they should change salts which often comes with negative results. The animals we keep become accustomed to the conditions they are living in, and making major changes can be a shock. Simply changing methodology based on salt mix numbers alone, not taking into account the health of the animals, seems like a bad idea.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

I for one. Staying with esv

 

[Hedgedrew]

This is probably smart but bob owes the industry an answer. Either it's his source or mixing conditions or the test is not accurate and gets ions mixed up. I know he's working on an answer. But ****. !! I have every confidence that this gets fixed one way or another. I'm told from dr Craig b that it maybe the magnesium sulfate and how it's mined if there's an issue at all. I really love the stuff so I hope answers forthcoming. I for one will be sending random samples in myself of only different salts mixed with ro. At this point I don't care about my tank per se until we figure out the salt thing or the machine thing.

 

[Hedgedrew]

Well. For anyone following this thread still. Bret. Randy and all..... I just found on the chief competitors reef Chem forum a triton test from aguy who claims to use io and does not do water changes. lithium happened to come back at same level or near same 6100 as esv test we all wondering about. There were some other weird readings also. I'm starting to wonder whether machine is mixing up or not able to read li from sodium or mag. Or its all random. Very interesting but how can others have io and reef crystal tests at or near normal li but this one was elevated big. Its either from an older batch that at one time had that issue also. Or. Just a. Machine issue.

 

[tonymission]

All I know is my corals love ESV

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well. For anyone following this thread still. Bret. Randy and all..... I just found on the chief competitors reef Chem forum a triton test from aguy who claims to use io and does not do water changes. lithium happened to come back at same level or near same 6100 as esv test we all wondering about. There were some other weird readings also. I'm starting to wonder whether machine is mixing up or not able to read li from sodium or mag. Or its all random. Very interesting but how can others have io and reef crystal tests at or near normal li but this one was elevated big. Its either from an older batch that at one time had that issue also. Or. Just a. Machine issue.

I obviously don't know where the lithium is coming from, or if it might even be an error somehow, but...

If we are referring to the same test result, the one you are referring to was a result for the aquarium, not the IO salt mix itself. So if it is something like a magnesium additive that brings in lithium, and this person used it as part of my DIY two part, and ESV used the same material to make their salt, that may explain it.

Sanjay, using IO, had lithium similar to RC (slightly elevated, but not like ESV).

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/triton-us/177072-triton-test-results-my-500g-tank.html