Seachem Pristine vs Phosguard vs Purigen?

[taylormaximus]

Hi guys, I've been doing some research on products I might get for my tank, and came across 3 relatively similar products all made by Seachem, and I'm wondering if anyone knows what each of them do specifically, or how they work together.

The main issues with my tank that I'm looking to solve are high nitrates and constant, aggressive diatoms on the rocks. There's also a fair bit of detritus going on, which isn't a huge issue, but I mention it because I think at least one of those products help with that.

Also I know there are other solutions to these problems with other methods, but I'm looking for something to use in conjunction with other methods that can make these problems easier to manage. Also I'm definitely open to getting more than one of these products if that's what will work the best, I'm just at a bit of a loss between the differences between them and how they work together.

What I have figured out so far is that Pristine is some kind of bacteria in a bottle (not a starter) and it somehow lowers the quantity of nitrate nitrite and ammonia if any are present, and also can eliminate algae? (although which types I'm not sure)

And then Phosguard and Purigen are both some kind of filter media that you can put in a filter basket, but purigen seems to basically do the same thing as Pristine, whereas Phosguard specifically lowers phosphate and silicates, which are responsible for diatoms and possibly other algaes? My phosphate in my tank has never been high enough to show on any test kits though so I'm not sure if that could cause any issues.

Anyway any information or experience with any of these products is welcome! Especially for what would work best for diatoms. Thanks!

Some tank info:
32 gallons
FOWLR system
HOB filter
Nitrates: ~35 ppm
The tank has been running for 4 months now

 

[bushdoc]

Unfortunately there is no miracle substance, which could resolve your problems.
Detritus comes from inefficient export of organic matter, so high Nitrates.
To address those issues , only comprehensive approach can work.
Is your bioload too large? How many fish and other inhabitants? Do you have enough rock and is it high quality?
How about water flow to disperse detritus?
Do you clean HOB filter often enough?
I know that this is not the answer you were expected, but in my opinion, products you mentioned are not substitute for good husbandry.

 

[Spare time]

Purigen is nearly useless imo. It barely prevents nitrates from forming. I wouldn't rely on bottled bacteria to lower nitrates or phosphates, but rather to clean up detritus.

 

[taricha]

Phosguard is PO4 binding (Aluminum, I think) medium. It certainly binds P and Si.
Purigen is a polymer binder of organic Nitrogen. Haven't seen any demonstration of its effectiveness.
Pristine is a bottled bacterial product with claims like many others. If a bacteria has food, then it can do all of those things to ammonia, nitrate, phosphate etc. But if it does not have a food, then it will not do any of those things. The bacteria in your tank could probably also perform all the same functions, if they had the food source.

 

[taylormaximus]

Phosguard is PO4 binding (Aluminum, I think) medium. It certainly binds P and Si.
Purigen is a polymer binder of organic Nitrogen. Haven't seen any demonstration of its effectiveness.
Pristine is a bottled bacterial product with claims like many others. If a bacteria has food, then it can do all of those things to ammonia, nitrate, phosphate etc. But if it does not have a food, then it will not do any of those things. The bacteria in your tank could probably also perform all the same functions, if they had the food source.

Thanks for the information! Do you think binding phosphate could be detrimental if there's already very little phosphate in the system? I don't want to bottom out the phosphate and lead to a cyano outbreak, but I definitely have excess silicates that I'd still like to remove.
Do you know if purigen or pristine would have any impact on the level of silicates in the system?
Also, have you had any personal experiences with any of these products?

 

[taricha]

Do you think binding phosphate could be detrimental if there's already very little phosphate in the system?

Yes, some people find that leads to bad outcomes. Coral bleaching etc.

Do you know if purigen or pristine would have any impact on the level of silicates in the system?

I would not expect it to.

Also, have you had any personal experiences with any of these products?

I found it hard to measure what purigen supposedly removed, but could easily measure what GAC removed.

 

[Wasabiroot]

undetectable phosphates isn't quite where you want to be (generally 0.03-0.1ish is a good goal). Seems like you have the right idea re:bottoming out nutrients.

Do you use RODI? If so, perhaps your anion resin needs to be replaced, or your source water could have high silicates if you do not. it's a small tank and it would take a long time to burn through any resin with that volume though (unless your source water comes from a well or is really bad).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Also I know there are other solutions to these problems with other methods, but I'm looking for something to use in conjunction with other methods that can make these problems easier to manage.

What other methods are you using or planning to use?

 

[geeked]

Allow the detritus to settle in the sump if you have one

 

[Reef.]

35 nitrates in a fish only tank, even in a mixed coral tank does not need bottles of stuff to add to the tank to solve this issue that isn’t really an issue.

Time and water changes would be my approach, if it is diatoms they will burn out as your tank matures, if you really want your nitrates lower, a water change will do that.

 

[taylormaximus]

undetectable phosphates isn't quite where you want to be (generally 0.03-0.1ish is a good goal). Seems like you have the right idea re:bottoming out nutrients.

Do you use RODI? If so, perhaps your anion resin needs to be replaced, or your source water could have high silicates if you do not. it's a small tank and it would take a long time to burn through any resin with that volume though (unless your source water comes from a well or is really bad).

0.1 is around where my phosphate is at now. I don't have a silicate test but I assume it's high based on the aggressive diatoms. But it doesn't seem like there's a way to lower silicate without affecting phos, to my knowledge...

I don't use RODI, in my area our water quality is really good generally, but I know that does come with the silicate issue, which is why I'm looking for another solution. Water changes won't help any since I assume that's part of the issue (along with the rock and sand).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

0.1 is around where my phosphate is at now. I don't have a silicate test but I assume it's high based on the aggressive diatoms. But it doesn't seem like there's a way to lower silicate without affecting phos, to my knowledge...

I don't use RODI, in my area our water quality is really good generally, but I know that does come with the silicate issue, which is why I'm looking for another solution. Water changes won't help any since I assume that's part of the issue (along with the rock and sand).

If you cannot stop input of substantial silicate, I think it may be hard to prevent diatoms without starving soemthing else you want, and you may just need to live with them.

FWIW, i dosed silicate, and got them every time, but didn't think there was a problem with them.

 

[taylormaximus]

What other methods are you using or planning to use?

Well just general husbandry with water changes and siphoning. And adding clean up crew for eating away at diatoms, but that will also further increase the nitrates. But like I mentioned some other options in addition to the basics to take the edge off would be great.

 

[taylormaximus]

If you cannot stop input of substantial silicate, I think it may be hard to prevent diatoms without starving soemthing else you want, and you may just need to live with them.

FWIW, i dosed silicate, and got them every time, but didn't think there was a problem with them.

Would using phosguard to lower silicate and phosphate work, and then dose something else to bring up the phosphate back to a healthy level?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Other good options are organic carbon dosing and growing macroalgae.

I wouldn't try to chemically reduce silicate in the tank, but folks have done it. You likely would have to dose phosphate. But you probaby could reduce it in the tap water where tyou do nto care about phosphate. Use phosguard or GFO and if you use enough, it will remove the silicate.

 

[Reef.]

You can add a bag of something like sera silicate remover to your fresh salt water as you are mixing it, before adding to your tank, no idea how long it takes to work but a cheap test kit should give you an idea as it drops. That would soon tell you if it’s a silicate issue or just a new tank thing.

 

[taylormaximus]

You can add a bag of something like sera silicate remover to your fresh salt water as you are mixing it, before adding to your tank, no idea how long it takes to work but a cheap test kit should give you an idea as it drops. That would soon tell you if it’s a silicate issue or just a new tank thing.

That's a good suggestion. Would you similarly be able to use phosguard directly in the new saltwater container to remove the silicates from the water before they even enter the display?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That's a good suggestion. Would you similarly be able to use phosguard directly in the new saltwater container to remove the silicates from the water before they even enter the display?

As I suggested above, I’d do it in the new fresh water, but you could do it in the salt water too.. if you use Phosguard, rinse it well before use.

 

[Reef.]

That's a good suggestion. Would you similarly be able to use phosguard directly in the new saltwater container to remove the silicates from the water before they even enter the display?

You could but sera is very cheap compared to phosguard.

 

[taylormaximus]

As I suggested above, I’d do it in the new fresh water, but you could do it in the salt water too.. if you use Phosguard, rinse it well before use.

You could but sera is very cheap compared to phosguard.

Is there any difference in what they actually do? (sera vs Phosguard)