Skimmer overflowing fish breathing fast?

[HankstankXXL750]

My 3XL900 with my angel fish turned cloudy. I determined it was small bubbles, looked in the sump and saw my skimmer overflowing (like when newly set up). All the fish seem to be breathing way fast, ORP dropped from 293-237 from 10PM-11PM.
Only thing I did different tonight was the krill I fed had been soaked in garlic guard. Set that up for a different fish to get it eating better, decided to feed it to these guys so it didn’t go bad. Has been in fridge 24-48hr tops.
Any ideas what might have happened?
I immediately put to battery powered air pumps in.

 

[Mark Novack]

I don't know what krill you used but fish oils can make the skimmer go nuts instantly. I always turned it off when feeding fresh mussels to the morays. Once it starts overflowing it feeds on itself and can continue to overflow. Now when I get a self-sustaining overflow I try to let the pollutants empty while replacing the lost water if its enough to effect salinity. If its too much I'll turn it off for an hour and try again. The time I thought to let it settle down on its own I lost a coral and it did not settle down.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

I don't know what krill you used but fish oils can make the skimmer go nuts instantly. I always turned it off when feeding fresh mussels to the morays. Once it starts overflowing it feeds on itself and can continue to overflow. Now when I get a self-sustaining overflow I try to let the pollutants empty while replacing the lost water if its enough to effect salinity. If its too much I'll turn it off for an hour and try again. The time I thought to let it settle down on its own I lost a coral and it did not settle down.

Hikari krill, I feed it daily. Only today it was soaked in garlic guard. However I didn’t pour any in only picked out the krill.
Ammonia is now reading .2 on Red Sea test. I checked it as fish act like ammonia poisoning. I have moved them all to a 40 gallon brute with air stones. Tank has been cycled and running with fish since cycle completed over 1 month ago. Did add two larger angels Tuesday but would think the cycle should have held up?

 

[Fishyfish22]

My 3XL900 with my angel fish turned cloudy. I determined it was small bubbles, looked in the sump and saw my skimmer overflowing (like when newly set up). All the fish seem to be breathing way fast, ORP dropped from 293-237 from 10PM-11PM.
Only thing I did different tonight was the krill I fed had been soaked in garlic guard. Set that up for a different fish to get it eating better, decided to feed it to these guys so it didn’t go bad. Has been in fridge 24-48hr tops.
Any ideas what might have happened?
I immediately put to battery powered air pumps in.

sounds like something triggered a bacterial bloom in your tank, probably the krill in garlic. do a large water change, your skimmer is overflowing because of all of the organic matter in the water (waste) empty the cup as frequently as you can, its basically separating the dirtier parts of the water.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

+1^
When I accidently would dump my skimmer cup waste in my sump my skimmer would go nuts and I just emptied it as much as I could into a 5g bucket. The cup would fill in under 60 seconds. It subsides in time.
D

 

[Mark Novack]

Ammonia is probably why the fish are gasping. You did well to move the fish. Yes, two large angels could cause a spike in a younger tank as could a bloom with decaying bacteria. The overflow compounds the issue.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Ammonia is probably why the fish are gasping. You did well to move the fish. Yes, two large angels could cause a spike in a younger tank as could a bloom with decaying bacteria. The overflow compounds the issue.

Ha e cyano in the tank. When I cycled it I did the ammonia doses daily to 2ppm until it fell to 0 2 days in a row. The. Had it stocked with 6 fish and an eel for over a month. I would have thought the bio filter would have supported them. But they are bigger angels.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

If the cloudiness is due to heterotrophic bacteria, the gasping is due to low oxygen/high carbon dioxide due to that bacteria.

If you overfed, or used too much garlic guard, it may be a bacterial bloom. However, the timing is a bit fast for that, I usually see these blooms more like 24 hours later.

jay

 

[MnFish1]

If the cloudiness is due to heterotrophic bacteria, the gasping is due to low oxygen/high carbon dioxide due to that bacteria.

If you overfed, or used too much garlic guard, it may be a bacterial bloom. However, the timing is a bit fast for that, I usually see these blooms more like 24 hours later.

jay

I agree - I think it was a bacterial bloom - since - he had it in the refrigerator for 24-48 hours before feeding - which lay have led to more bacteria being inoculated into the tank. More important to figure out the cause - would be your other nutrients, NO3, PO4, etc. If your pH is 'normal i.e. 8 or so' - an ammonia level of 0.2 will not cause a problem (unless you're talking about 'free ammonia' - which I do not think you are.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Lower the water level within the neck of skimmer and leave cap off. Agree- too much garlic guard in which you need a drop or two in food- not ounces as it is merely to boost immune system.
his condition most often is seen in a newly started aquarium, but can also occur in a tank in which there is has been an increase in the nutrients in the water, particularly nitrates and phosphates. Excessive feeding of fish without cleaning the debris can also cause a sharp increase in nutrients that results in these blooms .
Water changes will play a role as well as filter maintenance.

WHAT FILTER(S) ARE YOU USING ?

 

[HankstankXXL750]

I agree - I think it was a bacterial bloom - since - he had it in the refrigerator for 24-48 hours before feeding - which lay have led to more bacteria being inoculated into the tank. More important to figure out the cause - would be your other nutrients, NO3, PO4, etc. If your pH is 'normal i.e. 8 or so' - an ammonia level of 0.2 will not cause a problem (unless you're talking about 'free ammonia' - which I do not think you are.

So on 10/2 nutrients as follows
Nitrates 10.1
Phosphates .43

At time of event
ORP was 293 but dropped to below 200
Ph was between 8-8.2 at 11 dropped to 7.25 at 12:15 then came back up.
Ammonia was .2 total ammonia as per Red Sea Test kit, it did not register or if it did it was only slightly on a sea chem alert badge. I don’t run them on cycled tanks, but just left this one in after cycling just as a safety since I am trying to do angels.

Apparently I was luck to notice the change as it happened.

As far as bacterial bloom? The water didn’t appear milky but rather micro bubbles?

I think the krill was thawed out the night before, could possibly be two days, but shouldn’t it keep in the fridge?

So everyone please chime in as I certainly don’t want this to happen again.
@Jay Hemdal @Randy Holmes-Farley

Tank was set up and cycled using Caribsea life rock and Caribsea live rock. Used prodibio quick start and ace hardware ammonia (pure). Dosed and maintained daily at 2.0 ppm until reduced to 0 two or three days in a row. Then added six 2-4” fish, also added a small snowflake a week or two later. I also added 7 football sized or larger pieces of live rock with corals attached from my two reefs that have been running since February and last may. Rock was probably originally in tank started last May so 1 1/2 years of establishment.

Added the two larger angels on Sunday night. Fed everyone before transfer and then shut lights down until Monday evening. Fed twice on Monday and once on Tuesday evening, but not more than was consumed in 2 minutes or so.
Wednesday I fed again (1 cube plankton, 2 cubes hikari mega marine angel, 2 cubes Spirulina enriched brine, and aprox 1 cube PE Mysis and 7-8 krill 3 to the snowflake). This is the amount I have been feeding, but now feeding all in one tank vs two systems. Also less than 1 sheet nori Monday, and 1/2 sheet after.
Fed twice on Monday hoping to avoid introduction aggression. As I had added the 2 6-8” angels.
Only think different last night was the krill was soaked in garlic guard as I’m training a Beta off live and didn’t want it around too long, and there were probably two krill still
left in the tank when I changed water this morning so they didn’t eat it all. I did feed a few more torn in half as I thought the large angels might eat some.

Considering the bacteria that was established during cycle, and the additional introduced with the rock that the corals were on, is it possible that there wasn’t enough bacteria to support the addition of the two fish? And if so, so I dose Seed or Stability and or prime? (These are the products I have). I did add the recommended amount to the 120 gallons of new water I made.

Is it possible that the garlic guard went bad, it is less than 1 year old, but there is no expiration date on the container. Or by adding that (only the amount on the krill itself as I don’t pour them in) could that have caused the disruption of the skimmer releasing “stuff” back into the water column?

Lastly I have a cyano issue. Not unexpected as it is a new tank, but I noticed that it withdraw a after the lights start to ramp down and get less fuzzy. Does this imply that the bacterial is released increasing the bacteria in the water, or is it more like corals contracting after lights off?

Thank you as I want to avoid this in any other tanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

ORP was 293 but dropped to below 200
Ph was between 8-8.2 at 11 dropped to 7.25 at 12:15 then came back up.

This is exactly what a bacterial bloom will do. The ORP drops in relation to the dissolved oxygen lowering (it becomes a reducing environment, not an oxidative one). The pH drop reflects an increase in carbon dioxide in the water that forms carbonic acid.

Jay

 

[HankstankXXL750]

ORP was 293 but dropped to below 200
Ph was between 8-8.2 at 11 dropped to 7.25 at 12:15 then came back up.

This is exactly what a bacterial bloom will do. The ORP drops in relation to the dissolved oxygen lowering (it becomes a reducing environment, not an oxidative one). The pH drop reflects an increase in carbon dioxide in the water that forms carbonic acid.

Jay

Would you say this was due to overfeeding or increased feeding. I feed with all pumps off and AI Nero’s running feed mode of 1%. To allow the fish to eat without the food sucked into the sump or “blown” around the tank generally except Monday once a day.
Or just the increased bio-load of adding the two larger fish?
Or something from the Garlic Guard?

How long can you keep frozen foods thawed in RODI in the fridge before feeding?

I generally thaw two days of food for my predicable as I feed 1/2 of a scallop with one silverside and peeled shrimp and a few krill, so adding two shrimp and two silversides has been my practice. Would these start to decompose in 24 hours in a fridge? Increasing the bacteria?

Is there anything that I can do to reduce the chances of this happening. I have changed at least 40 gallons of the 210 volume weekly as I have been slowly raising the salinity from a starting point of 1.020 as that is where I QT my fish. I haven’t vacuumed the sand as aside from cyano the sand appeared pristine. No ugly appearance around the glass etc.

I know that cyano gives off oxygen during photosynthesis, so as the lights ramp down I assume O2 drops as well. My set ups are in the basement and Ph drops some every night, I run my fuge lights opposite of tank lights to try to help, and have outside air plumbed to my skimmers. Also as it has cooled off, I have had a window open downstairs to try to increase O2. Reading another thread about blooms I am wondering if that is more positive or negative?

thanks
Kent

 

[HankstankXXL750]

ORP was 293 but dropped to below 200
Ph was between 8-8.2 at 11 dropped to 7.25 at 12:15 then came back up.

This is exactly what a bacterial bloom will do. The ORP drops in relation to the dissolved oxygen lowering (it becomes a reducing environment, not an oxidative one). The pH drop reflects an increase in carbon dioxide in the water that forms carbonic acid.

Jay

Also, when I first noticed the fast respiration of the fish I immediately added two battery powered air pumps. Then some of the smaller fish like the Xanthurus really started to break the top of the water and swim erratically. I’m sure I stressed them as I immediately pulled that fish to my QT from 1.023 to 1.020, but it never recovered. In a drastic measure I dropped everyone else except the snowflake as I couldn’t get him into a 40 gallon brute at 1.026 mixed the night before for my planned water change. Knew the fish wouldn’t breath as well in 1.026 but out of options. Heavily aerated that tub.
From other threads, I believe aerating was the right go to, but did it amplify the bloom, or was it just the fact that I caught it early in the process that it seamed to get worse.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, when I first noticed the fast respiration of the fish I immediately added two battery powered air pumps. Then some of the smaller fish like the Xanthurus really started to break the top of the water and swim erratically. I’m sure I stressed them as I immediately pulled that fish to my QT from 1.023 to 1.020, but it never recovered. In a drastic measure I dropped everyone else except the snowflake as I couldn’t get him into a 40 gallon brute at 1.026 mixed the night before for my planned water change. Knew the fish wouldn’t breath as well in 1.026 but out of options. Heavily aerated that tub.
From other threads, I believe aerating was the right go to, but did it amplify the bloom, or was it just the fact that I caught it early in the process that it seamed to get worse.

Aeration might have agitated the fish, but it helps with gas exchange so needed to be done.
Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Would you say this was due to overfeeding or increased feeding. I feed with all pumps off and AI Nero’s running feed mode of 1%. To allow the fish to eat without the food sucked into the sump or “blown” around the tank generally except Monday once a day.
Or just the increased bio-load of adding the two larger fish?
Or something from the Garlic Guard?

How long can you keep frozen foods thawed in RODI in the fridge before feeding?

I generally thaw two days of food for my predicable as I feed 1/2 of a scallop with one silverside and peeled shrimp and a few krill, so adding two shrimp and two silversides has been my practice. Would these start to decompose in 24 hours in a fridge? Increasing the bacteria?

Is there anything that I can do to reduce the chances of this happening. I have changed at least 40 gallons of the 210 volume weekly as I have been slowly raising the salinity from a starting point of 1.020 as that is where I QT my fish. I haven’t vacuumed the sand as aside from cyano the sand appeared pristine. No ugly appearance around the glass etc.

I know that cyano gives off oxygen during photosynthesis, so as the lights ramp down I assume O2 drops as well. My set ups are in the basement and Ph drops some every night, I run my fuge lights opposite of tank lights to try to help, and have outside air plumbed to my skimmers. Also as it has cooled off, I have had a window open downstairs to try to increase O2. Reading another thread about blooms I am wondering if that is more positive or negative?

thanks
Kent

I looked up the MSDS for garlic guard but they don’t list the ingredients. I never hold thawed aquarium food longer than 24 hours, but I know some people hold it for 48 with no issues.
All reef tanks benefit from aeration at night to offset the reverse phase photosynthesis issues of carbon dioxide production (some people run their refugiums on reverse light cycles and that also helps).
Does your tank have a protein skimmer on it? Those also help with gas exchange.
Jay

 

[HankstankXXL750]

I looked up the MSDS for garlic guard but they don’t list the ingredients. I never hold thawed aquarium food longer than 24 hours, but I know some people hold it for 48 with no issues.
All reef tanks benefit from aeration at night to offset the reverse phase photosynthesis issues of carbon dioxide production (some people run their refugiums on reverse light cycles and that also helps).
Does your tank have a protein skimmer on it? Those also help with gas exchange.
Jay

Yes all of my tanks run skimmers 24/7 unless treating something that says shut it down. All are Red Sea skimmers and have air line tubbing t’d off of vinyl tubing drawn from outside.
Can aeration be done in the sump vs DT? Just asking because I get huge salt creep and makes the tanks ugly and hard to clean. Like in the chamber right before the return pumps. I would t mind a little micro bubbles, but would like a better solution to the mess.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes all of my tanks run skimmers 24/7 unless treating something that says shut it down. All are Red Sea skimmers and have air line tubbing t’d off of vinyl tubing drawn from outside.
Can aeration be done in the sump vs DT? Just asking because I get huge salt creep and makes the tanks ugly and hard to clean. Like in the chamber right before the return pumps. I would t mind a little micro bubbles, but would like a better solution to the mess.

Aeration in the tank is best, but with salt creep and spray, most people opt for their sump. That said, if you are running a good skimmer, that will provide good aeration.
Jay

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Aeration in the tank is best, but with salt creep and spray, most people opt for their sump. That said, if you are running a good skimmer, that will provide good aeration.
Jay

Thanks

 

[SpyC]

How is the bloom looking? Were you able to get it sorted out and back to normal?