Sump return compartment empty

[matt6950]

Hey all I have a AQUA ONE MINIREEF 120 AQUARIUM & CABINET - WHITE with sump.


After about 2 days of running the return department of the sump runs out of water, as top it up it works as it should then 2-3 days later it’s empty again?

What could be causing this?
There is no leaks.

 

[rongy]

Evaporation? You need to top off with RODI with auto top off or manually every day

 

[shakacuz]

Hey all I have a AQUA ONE MINIREEF 120 AQUARIUM & CABINET - WHITE with sump.


After about 2 days of running the return department of the sump runs out of water, as top it up it works as it should then 2-3 days later it’s empty again?

What could be causing this?
There is no leaks.

water evaporation. you need to supplement with RODI water or saltwater(depending if you need to increase salinity which isn't always the case)

you need an auto top off system to compensate for evaporation

 

[SPS2020]

Hey all I have a AQUA ONE MINIREEF 120 AQUARIUM & CABINET - WHITE with sump.


After about 2 days of running the return department of the sump runs out of water, as top it up it works as it should then 2-3 days later it’s empty again?

What could be causing this?
There is no leaks.

Sounds like evaporation to me. How much water are you adding via top off?

 

[javajaws]

Definitely sounds like evap. And if this is new to you I would suggest slowing down (assuming this tank is newly filled and cycling) and do some more reading before you run into more serious problems that will have you pulling out your hair (yours and the algae version!).

 

[matt6950]

Definitely sounds like evap. And if this is new to you I would suggest slowing down (assuming this tank is newly filled and cycling) and do some more reading before you run into more serious problems that will have you pulling out your hair (yours and the algae version!).

No slowing down to-do tank is completely empty other than rock and sand letting it cycle through, not rushing that just didn’t expect it to be losing a good 5-6 litres every 2 days. Seems excessive for evaporation

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

No slowing down to-do tank is completely empty other than rock and sand letting it cycle through, not rushing that just didn’t expect it to be losing a good 5-6 litres every 2 days. Seems excessive for evaporation

Unless you have a leak, that's the only place it could have gone.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

If you have no livestock then temp isn't as important, do you can always put a lid on the tank and/or sump (but not both) to reduce evap.
Also, if there's an AC vent or fan near the tank, this will speed up evap.

 

[Uncle99]

Slow down flow on return pump, is that possible.
Maybe it’s pumping more than what comes back?
Mine did same as you describe.
When I slowed the pump, it stayed full except for evaporation.
Just a thought.

 

[matt6950]

Slow down flow on return pump, is that possible.
Maybe it’s pumping more than what comes back?
Mine did same as you describe.
When I slowed the pump, it stayed full except for evaporation.
Just a thought.

This is what we are thinking.
This is a 2nd hand tank and I don’t think the pump is the original, it takes up a large amount of space in the sump.

The return bay becomes empty with the water in the tank almost becoming over flowing, when the pump is turned off, the water line in the sump goes to/ over max fill line.

 

[Uncle99]

This is what we are thinking.
This is a 2nd hand tank and I don’t think the pump is the original, it takes up a large amount of space in the sump.

The return bay becomes empty with the water in the tank almost becoming over flowing, when the pump is turned off, the water line in the sump goes to/ over max fill line.

For sure then, let that DT water fall back into the sump, you can only pump the same amount that can return.

Go to the pumps slowest flow, then move upwards until water falls back. Then stop.

 

[matt6950]

For sure then, let that DT water fall back into the sump, you can only pump the same amount that can return.

The pump we have is


Senelux SL-405B Water Pump 1500Lh


but when we turn it on the return department is emptied within a few seconds, it definitely seems like we are returning more than is being emptied out of the tank. Via the tubing.


Edit, it's taking 1 minute exactly from pump turning on to bay being empty

Turning the pump off it takes about 30 seconds for the tank to go under the inlets for new water to go into it, and about 50 seconds in total to stop adding water to the sump.

This would suggest more water is being returned than pumped by them timings.

But it definitely loooks like the pump is over pumping by the fact stump empties and it’s not refilling fast enough for water to be pumped and tank remains at a high water level.

Do you think a smaller pump could be the answer and if so how many L per hour?

 

[Uncle99]

The pump we have is


Senelux SL-405B Water Pump 1500Lh


but when we turn it on the return department is emptied within a few seconds, it definitely seems like we are returning more than is being emptied out of the tank. Via the tubing.


Edit, it's taking 1 minute exactly from pump turning on to bay being empty

Turning the pump off it takes about 30 seconds for the tank to go under the inlets for new water to go into it, and about 50 seconds in total to stop adding water to the sump.

This would suggest more water is being returned than pumped by them timings.

But it definitely loooks like the pump is over pumping by the fact stump empties and it’s not refilling fast enough for water to be pumped and tank remains at a high water level.

Do you think a smaller pump could be the answer and if so how many L per hour?

Does your pump have a controller?
If, so, reduce speed on controller.

Having a controller helps a ton in balancing.

Without, can you make any adjustment to your pump in terms of speed?

You could put a valve on the return and slow the water that way but this puts pressure on the pump itself.

Can you widen overflow pipes?

Easiest is to use a DC controlled pump like Jebao which is very cost effective.

In any event, you must only pump the same volume in to the DY…..that can come out, or the system will eventually, dry out the sump return, hopefully not overflow your tank.

The water at return pump must be stable, no rise, no fall from the level controlled by the ATO.

 

[Uncle99]

I looked up your Senelux SL-405B Water Pump 1500Lh and I have not seen these used in reef systems, not to say that won’t work.

But, IMM, without fine speed control, the process becomes hard.

 

[matt6950]

Does your pump have a controller?
If, so, reduce speed on controller.

Having a controller helps a ton in balancing.

Without, can you make any adjustment to your pump in terms of speed?

You could put a valve on the return and slow the water that way but this puts pressure on the pump itself.

Can you widen overflow pipes?

Easiest is to use a DC controlled pump like Jebao which is very cost effective.

In any event, you must only pump the same volume in to the DY…..that can come out, or the system will eventually, dry out the sump return, hopefully not overflow your tank.

The water at return pump must be stable, no rise, no fall from the level controlled by the ATO.

No it doesn’t unfortunately
It is capable of pumping in just 2cm of water, so sump it going from max line to under 2cm in 1 minute.

So the hose attached to the pump is quite a large hose in diameter I’ve attached a photo.

In the photo the bio-media balls have gone all over the place just ignore that I’ve also taken the sock off just to try to see how much water is going back into the sump.

Way I see it first component is water flow into sump from tank, and heater. (Did have a filter in there when I had no bio media stuff now not being used)

2nd component bio-media (filter area will have sponges in there soon)

3rd component return pump

I have also attached a video of the pump running- it emptying the sump and the water level of the tank.

 

[matt6950]

I looked up your Senelux SL-405B Water Pump 1500Lh and I have not seen these used in reef systems, not to say that won’t work.

But, IMM, without fine speed control, the process becomes hard.

It’s just what came with the tank,
Guy sold the than because he wasn’t getting on with it- I’m thinking pump might be an issue and I might look at one that has a selectable pump flow I’ve found one that will do between 600L per hour and 1200Lph and you can control the speed I’m thinking that might be worth a try, I think 1500 is too much per hours

 

[javajaws]

I can't see pump speed being the problem here. If your sump return chamber is running dry and your tank isn't overflowing on the floor then you are low on water. Am I missing something here (entirely possible!)? You said this was running fine for 2 days? How could pump flow be too high if that was the case?

 

[javajaws]

1500 would be max rating - in reality it will flow less because of head loss. Generally you want 2-3x tank volume running through your sump per hour. You can do more, but never more than your tank overflow can handle otherwise you'll end up with water on the floor.

 

[Uncle99]

Is that DT 120gallons or litres?

And how big is sump?

 

[Uncle99]

I can't see pump speed being the problem here. If your sump return chamber is running dry and your tank isn't overflowing on the floor then you are low on water. Am I missing something here (entirely possible!)? You said this was running fine for 2 days? How could pump flow be too high if that was the case?

That’s very valid.
Can’t see video