Survey Reefers re: vacuuming sand bed.

[TWYOUNG]

I wish I knew how to create a survey for all reefers with sand beds. Do you (A) Leave it be (B) Stir it regularly (C) Aggressively vacuum it regularly (D) Utilize cuc such as Sand Sifting Starfish, snails, fish etc. (E) Other. My tank is 18 months old, 5' x 2' with 2" of sand. I have never vacuumed it but have two fat sand sifting stars. I do notice a plume of grey whenever I disturb the sand which concerns me. Nutrient levels are 11/0.1 and I have no algae issues.

 

[CasperOe]

B / D for me. I do vacuum it sometimes but not religiously my gobys moves the sand around continuously and for the most part do a great job keeping it clean.

 

[Kellie in CA]

I stir every day. I've never been able to find a way to vacuum sand without losing half of it.

 

[Tavero]

I wish I knew how to create a survey for all reefers with sand beds. Do you (A) Leave it be (B) Stir it regularly (C) Aggressively vacuum it regularly (D) Utilize cuc such as Sand Sifting Starfish, snails, fish etc. (E) Other. My tank is 18 months old, 5' x 2' with 2" of sand. I have never vacuumed it but have two fat sand sifting stars. I do notice a plume of grey whenever I disturb the sand which concerns me. Nutrient levels are 11/0.1 and I have no algae issues.

Just post a new thread as poll instead discussion.

I vacuum it my sand as much as is possible (40% surface) during wc (which I don't do often maybe every 6 weeks)

 

[Alexraptor]

I try not to disturb the sand in any way. I did a series of siphoning and rinses in my 15G this summer, simply because the amount of detritus that's built up was causing constant snowstorms. My 38G has an biological stirring system called a Tiger Pistol Shrimp.

Ideally, one should have a diverse enough biome in the sandbed that the detritus is completely broken down to inert inorganic material. And that there is enough variety of life in the sand to allow natural bioturbation to occur, which is a form of natural and continous "stirring". Unfortunately this is often not possible if tanks have been started with Dry Rock.

 

[TWYOUNG]

I stir every day. I've never been able to find a way to vacuum sand without losing half of it.

Stirring EVERY day on a 5' x 2' tank seems like it would be quite laborious.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Unfortunately this is often not possible if tanks have been started with Dry Rock.

Dry rock becomes "live rock" rather quickly and within a reasonable period of time, there is not much difference in the micro and macro fauna in most system, assuming that fish and corals are imported from other system.

 

[Uncle99]

Vacumn 25% every 6 months with Python.
Want to keep as much as possible good stuff in the sand bed.

 

[vlangel]

I have a tiered sand bed. Some of it is 1", the next tier is 4" and the deepest tier is 7". I do nothing with it but I have nassarius snails and an Atlantic cucumber who groom it for me.

 

[EricR]

I always vacuum a large portion as my water change (with Python).
*no idea what led me to think that was a good idea in the beginning but sticking with it at this point

 

[Itsadeepbluesea]

I vacuum it a bit, stir it and use a clean up crew.

 

[jtichenor]

I keep the sand less than 3/4" deep and vacuum it at almost every water change every 2 weeks. I blow/mix it where I can't reach the vacuum tube.

 

[Alexraptor]

Dry rock becomes "live rock" rather quickly and within a reasonable period of time, there is not much difference in the micro and macro fauna in most system, assuming that fish and corals are imported from other system.

I disagree.

Real live rock from the ocean is a vector to introduce a large variety of bacteria, worms, crustaceans and other microorganisms that make up a healthy reef, and even serves as temporary homes for many sand dwelling organisms (or organisms with a sand-dwelling stage in their life cycle).

Dry rock does not have this advantage and can only be populated by what we actively choose to add to the tank, and a very limited selection of organisms that may cling to "fish and corals".

A system started with 100% live rock will have significantly higher biodiversity than a system started with just dry rock, or mostly dry rock and a few seed stones. That's just pure mathematics. The trick however, is sustaining that biodiversity in the long term and I suspsect that "most systems" are too aggressively filtered, cleaned and "stirred", to support the complex food webs required.

 

[kevgib67]

I never vacuum my sand bed. I leave it to my diamond watchman goby, 2 conchs and my team of nassarius snails and they never take a day off or go on vacation ( holiday for our British friends).

 

[RedReefer]

I vacuum monthly with a large water change. Been doing this for years. Tank is nice healthy.

 

[TWYOUNG]

I vacuum monthly with a large water change. Been doing this for years. Tank is nice healthy.

Do you have any sand cuc.?

 

[Tavero]

I disagree.

Real live rock from the ocean is a vector to introduce a large variety of bacteria, worms, crustaceans and other microorganisms that make up a healthy reef, and even serves as temporary homes for many sand dwelling organisms (or organisms with a sand-dwelling stage in their life cycle).

Dry rock does not have this advantage and can only be populated by what we actively choose to add to the tank, and a very limited selection of organisms that may cling to "fish and corals".

A system started with 100% live rock will have significantly higher biodiversity than a system started with just dry rock, or mostly dry rock and a few seed stones. That's just pure mathematics. The trick however, is sustaining that biodiversity in the long term and I suspsect that "most systems" are too aggressively filtered, cleaned and "stirred", to support the complex food webs required.

I agree with you on your stance on live rock, but never removing detrius from the tank would mean that it will build up and suffocate that great biodiversity you appreciate so much.
Even reefs in the ocean are cleaned regularly by currents and storms from detrius which is then transported to the deep sea where it builds up kilometer thick layers over the millennia.

 

[Alexraptor]

I agree with you on your stance on live rock, but never removing detrius from the tank would mean that it will build up and suffocate that great biodiversity you appreciate so much.
Even reefs in the ocean are cleaned regularly by currents and storms from detrius which is then transported to the deep sea where it builds up kilometer thick layers over the millennia.

Actually bioturbation prevents suffocation.

And with sufficient flow and activity in the sandbed, excess detritus is effectively removed with particle filters.

 

[RedReefer]

Do you have any sand cuc.?

Just snails and hermits. No sand sifters I have always vacuumed my sand beds in my Reef tanks.

 

[BeanAnimal]

A system started with 100% live rock will have significantly higher biodiversity than a system started with just dry rock, or mostly dry rock and a few seed stones. That's just pure mathematics. The trick however, is sustaining that biodiversity in the long term and I suspsect that "most systems" are too aggressively filtered, cleaned and "stirred", to support the complex food webs required.

We are not debating a sterile system vs one stated with live rock. We are talking about a system started with only live rock vs one started with some live rock and your opinion that using any dry rock is a mistake.

As I stated, and has been shown by event recent biome tests, most systems end up in the same basic biome space after a modest period f time, like it or not. Sure, there is always a chance that that "one extra rock" brings in something new.. but how many "live rocks" is enough?

If you want to cite "pure mathematics" then you would want to count the organisms that CAN survive, vs those that typically DO survive against those that have NO CHANCE to survive and those that are WANTED and those that are UNWANTED.

I am not here to debate what is over filtration or what organisms should be allowed to thrive or why. The reality is that long term, there is very little difference between the two systems and most of "bio diversity" ends up pretty similar and is transported around as we trade fish corals and even cups of sand with each other.