The myth that LED lights last forever

[buruskeee]

lol. Good ole Florida!! Where are you? What do they charge there?

I’m in CA but I’m lucky, I have a municipality for power so my average is around $0.14/kWh. Plus I have solar anyways (9 year ROI for me at current rates)

 

[Bpb]

Also bear in mind. The whole “you HAVE to replace your leds every 5 years” was said in one of Tullios videos. That doesn’t necessarily make it gospel. If you are getting adequate intensity from a working fixture, what reason is there to toss it?

 

[Reefering1]

I've been considering solar. But I can't seem to get past the part where, even though I'm producing electricity, I can't use it when the power is out(i.e after a hurricane). I understand safety of the linesmen, but how hard would it be for a transfer switch that disconnects from the grid during power failure

 

[Reefering1]

Also bear in mind. The whole “you HAVE to replace your leds every 5 years” was said in one of Tullios videos. That doesn’t necessarily make it gospel. If you are getting adequate intensity from a working fixture, what reason is there to toss it?

Only reason I see is shift in spectrum. But in my case, it was explained that it may have likely been different led batches( noticed after adding a new fixture to 2year old existing units). less likely that the older ones shifted

 

[Bpb]

Only reason I see is shift in spectrum. But in my case, it was explained that it may have likely been different led batches( noticed after adding a new fixture to 2year old existing units). less likely that the older ones shifted

I rarely had 2 identical brand halide bulbs that matched right out of the box. Aside from me noticing, it wasn’t ever a problem. I’m not convinced spectral shift on leds is anywhere close to detrimental to the health of the livestock.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I've been considering solar. But I can't seem to get past the part where, even though I'm producing electricity, I can't use it when the power is out(i.e after a hurricane). I understand safety of the linesmen, but how hard would it be for a transfer switch that disconnects from the grid during power failure

Solar is a boondoggle for everyone but the person who get the subsidized equipment... and even then...

That however, is not a debate I wish to get into here.

Anybody can feel free to come put a panel on my house, maintain it, the switch gear and the storage batteries and my roof and not charge me for it. I will not complain

 

[Reefering1]

Solar is a boondoggle for everyone but the person who get the subsidized equipment... and even then...

That however, is not a debate I wish to get into here.

Anybody can feel free to come put a panel on my house, maintain it, the switch gear and the storage batteries and my roof and not charge me for it. I will not complain

Lol. Boondoggle... haven't heard that term in a long while

 

[BeanAnimal]

Lol. Boondoggle... haven't heard that term in a long while

If only I was not too lazy to go back and fix the context of my statement... but you get the point

 

[buruskeee]

I've been considering solar. But I can't seem to get past the part where, even though I'm producing electricity, I can't use it when the power is out(i.e after a hurricane). I understand safety of the linesmen, but how hard would it be for a transfer switch that disconnects from the grid during power failure

Solar is only on or off, when it’s on, it’s making as much power as possible, regardless if you’re consuming it or not. When you’re not consuming it, it backfeeds into the grid and your meter spins backwards.

Now when the power is out, if you can’t consume the power, it will escape the system as heat, which will inevitably fry the system. If you have a battery system, now you can allow your system to stay on as the battery will store excess power (until it’s full and then it will turn your solar off and you’ll be on battery power until there’s enough room to allow your solar to come back online).

You can trick the inverter(s) of solar to come on, but you’ll fry your system very quick.

 

[buruskeee]

Solar is a boondoggle for everyone but the person who get the subsidized equipment... and even then...

That however, is not a debate I wish to get into here.

Anybody can feel free to come put a panel on my house, maintain it, the switch gear and the storage batteries and my roof and not charge me for it. I will not complain

In California, prior to new net metering rules for new solar, it was a 4 year ROI for many people. This means every 4 years that homeowner stayed with the electric company, they were paying in full for a solar system.

Some states the return may not make sense, but in the majority of CA, it’s a no brainer - people are throwing money away by not owning one (leasing is another story that’s never advantageous). Now letting these pubic utilities run free without much regulation for how pricing is structured is another story. Wish there was cheap nuclear power for all to enjoy.

It’s back up to a 7 year ROI by requiring batteries now in CA with the new rules, but we’re talking 7 year ROI on $5k annual bills - still worth it, but now it makes folks think about moving out of the state instead as a solution. It’s getting out of hand with how CA is ran.

 

[BeanAnimal]

In California, prior to new net metering rules for new solar, it was a 4 year ROI for many people. This means every 4 years that homeowner stayed with the electric company, they were paying in full for a solar system.

4 year ROI for the 'homeowner', not 4 year ROI on the real system cost
And to that end, with the grossly inflated energy costs in CA...

Think we best we leave the conversation for the solar reddit or forum or bar.

 

[buruskeee]

4 year ROI for the 'homeowner', not 4 year ROI on the real system cost

Best we leave the conversation for the solar reddit or forum or bar.

Not sure what you mean there.

It was 4 year simple ROI. For example, 3k annual bill before solar, 17k gross cost of system out the door installed, 30% tax credit (not write off, dollar for dollar back on income taxes you would pay regardless) and net cost is $12k and zero bill from SDGE there after. This is not counting rate increases or inflation. It is (was until 6 months ago) a literal 4 year ROI in San Diego County.

I agree, another conversation another time, but in CA there were no tricks or gimmicks or deception. It was a straight forward fast return. But extremely high cost of grid power is the bigger issue to tackle.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Not sure what you mean there.

You just laid part of it out below.

17k gross cost of system out the door installed, 30% tax credit (not write off, dollar for dollar back on income taxes you would pay regardless) and net cost is $12k.

Add to that the other subsidies from end to end (including the power rate increases to cover said subsidies) - and sure it makes sense for everyone directly involved, because everyone else is paying for something that would otherwise not be cost effective. This ignores cradle to grave environmental impact, costs related to failure rates of switchgear, battery replacement, poor contractors and engineering (rampant).

Not knocking you (or anybody) for taking advantage of the system, I would too if I was in an area where MY ROI was guaranteed and long term maintenance was not an issue.

 

[zheka757]

I kind of finding it a little ridiculous, by how much some of you concentrating on lights. to me lights are priority #3 in reefing.

 

[buruskeee]

You just laid part of it out below.


Add to that the other subsidies from end to end (including the power rate increases to cover said subsidies) - and sure it makes sense for everyone directly involved, because everyone else is paying for something that would otherwise not be cost effective. This ignores cradle to grave environmental impact, failure rates of switchgear, battery replacement, etc.

Not knocking you (or anybody) for taking advantage of the system, I would too if I was in an area where MY ROI was guaranteed and long term maintenance was not an issue.

Well the subsidy is federal - but yes, the state is just completely mismanaged to begin with. Problem lies with grid infrastructure and population density and how they spend so much money to avoid fixing it.

Trust me, if it wasn’t for the weather, I’d have left a long time ago (I can do humidity, but can’t do hurricanes or tornados lol - I’ll take my little earthquakes any day of the week).

Worst comes to worse, I am starting to find Idaho to be a more and more attractive. Just hate being away from the coast lines.

 

[Bpb]

I kind of finding it a little ridiculous, by how much some of you concentrating on lights. to me lights are priority #3 in reefing.

Agree. But it’s the most obvious factor to the tank. Our hobby is entirely visual, So lights are the obvious area of primary focus. I put rock quality/water quality and flow above light in importance.

 

[buruskeee]

I kind of finding it a little ridiculous, by how much some of you concentrating on lights. to me lights are priority #3 in reefing.

I agree, but it’s the thread topic - plus some of us need to pass time or we go insane lol. Plus, no lights no coral, although yes, water parameters number 1 and flow number 2 in importance.

 

[zheka757]

Agree. But it’s the most obvious factor to the tank. Our hobby is entirely visual, So lights are the obvious area of primary focus. I put rock quality/water quality and flow above light in importance.

yes, but argument reefers have here is "health" of corals/animals in tank. lights is least what I would concentrate on to keep things healthy in the tank

 

[BeanAnimal]

Problem lies with grid infrastructure and population density and how they spend so much money to avoid fixing it.

and more money trying to cripple it and shut down generation sources and then more money buying back the same type of power that they turned off (and all of the distribution losses incurred), form sources thousands of miles away at a premium because they are idiots.

Yes - much of the solar subsidy is federal, but when you start peeling back the layers and uncovering the grift at every level, the insanity is mind boggling.

 

[A. grandis]

I’ve touched on this so many times but it generally gets ignored. I stopped commenting on the matter because I didn’t want to appear to be picking on Grandis, but you mentioned something I’ve said and agree with as well.

I too ran halides for years, and the fan trick is almost entirely ineffective if blowing parallel to the water. The bulbs are not blowing hot air that can be removed by another breeze. It’s radiant heat. Air presented parallel to the water/perpendicular to the photon emission does very little. My tank temps climbed up into the high 80’s when using fans in this manner.

Once I pointed the fans directly at the water to force evaporation, the real temp reduction happened. Fan-Air alone dropped water temps 6-7 degrees….but that came at a cost. I lost 2+ gallons of water to evaporation a day in my 90 gallon tank, and in a 1600 sqft house, that created an 85%+ humidity level inside the house. Mildew in all the windowsills, rust all over anything metal in the house, the AC running constantly, and a generally disgusting and muggy feeling.

Even if the corals grew marginally faster, it wasn’t worth the strain it was putting on the physical structure of my home and the comfort of its inhabitants.

The next utility billing cycle after I switched to led lighting was just over $100 cheaper just from air conditioning reduction and a slight reduction in light wattage. Humidity levels fell to the low 50’s where they should be for an indoor dwelling in my region.

Those are REAL experiences. Not “what led companies want you to believe”. That was my actual observation. This is what I base my understanding of the hobby on and what I choose to use. Not what tullio says, not what BRS says, and not what some particular brand claims they can do.

I have a reasonable working understanding of what spectrum my lights emit, what par levels and spectrum my corals will grow and thrive under, and an ability to measure intensity. That is what I use to apply light to my tank. Not sales pitches.

You don't need to save info because of me, Bpb. Everyone knows the radiant heat from halides is what heats up the water and the only way to cool off is chiller for the water, and fans for the environment around the system. The fans will indeed prevent additional heat from the fixture to warm up the water even more. Open canopy is another tip. It's the basics of using halides. Same for LEDs in regards to canopies. LEDs won't emit heat radiant like halides emit.