Thoughts on Garage sellers.... Could it be the death to many LFS?

[thejuggernaut]

They are sweet but nothing saved my back like getting all the coolers up off the floor when packing/shipping! Fed Ex pulls up and we wheel it right up to the back of the truck and with a big shove they GONE!


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Untitled by https://www.flickr.com/people/132191202@N05/

So after talking with you and hearing your story, I went out and go some of your Fish Frenzy. I have got to say, it is the cleanest frozen food I've ever used. The fish went crazy for it. I also got some of the Piscine PE Mysis. I haven't used it yet, but I hear it is nice stuff to.

 

[dormreefer]

Thats a crazy awesome set up!

 

[ReefFrenzy]

So after talking with you and hearing your story, I went out and go some of your Fish Frenzy. I have got to say, it is the cleanest frozen food I've ever used. The fish went crazy for it. I also got some of the Piscine PE Mysis. I haven't used it yet, but I hear it is nice stuff to.

Thank you for buying our food AND posting! I'm glad our brand was represented truthfully and lived up to the marking claims. I'm sure after 5-7 days your fish will be a eating out of your hand.

Thats a crazy awesome set up!

You gotta have the right tools for the job!

Thanks for following.

 

[tepperchris]

Garage seller

Still not sure why it matters to so many. People that are hating on garage sellers are such hypocrites. They say oh it's unfair. So tell me this (if you're one of the ones hating) Have you never browsed around for a cheaper price in anything in life? Have you never purchased an item at a garage sale/ local auction? Same principal that person that currently has the item bought it from somewhere prior. He may or may not be making money off of it as profit. That's his prerogative. Why would you buy a $50 item at radio shack when you can get the same item at walmart for $20. It's an economy driven world. Business owners choose to have the overhead instead of from their garage, not the garage sellers problem. Sorry-not-so-sorry that they want to take bigger risk for bigger reward.

 

[Kehaulani]

garage sellers.

I'm all for garage Sellars if they know their stuff and keep nice healthy specimens. But the garage seller here in minot north dakota gets cheap frags from his friends and then sells them at crazy prices to make profits off of people who are new to the hobby. I'm not into that. I like helping people out if I can. I tried talking to him about his prices but he got mad at me and banned me from his Facebook page. Whatever haha.

 

[Pete polyp]

I'm for hobbyists selling frags of their colonies once they have grown out. But now days it seems like hobbyists will buy a frag and frag the frag to sell immediately. What happened to buying corals because you want to keep them? "Mother colonies" are now a frag plug half full, or 1 "momma" mushroom. It kinda sickens me to see this happen when these corals have so much potential to become a beautiful colony but will never have the chance.


Edit: I should have read this thread before posting so I apologize for being off topic.

 

[s2minute]

I'll repeat this again for those who just keep talkin about it.

Most LFS don't specialize in selling just corals, if at all. They also sell a whole line of dry goods and stock freshwater as well. Many even sell other type of living things too like dogs,cats and reptiles along with the dry goods and related products. Only a minority of "pet" stores or actual aquarium stores sell only Saltwater specific creatures and then they still also stock all kinds of related products to support it. The avg. hobbyist that sells corals out of his/her home deals in a very narrow and limited line of product and even though he/she may have a business license they still can't sell the volume an lfs can so there is no real competition. All it is, is a from of advanced husbandry really. I don't sell out of my home, i'm an end user. I can tell you this though. Some LFS stores DON'T sell quality product and some do. Some LFS owners get caught up in the hype and greed of making that almighty $ and not only pack in as much a verity and volume of product to sell that 1: They overwhelm themselves. 2: hire staff that many times don't really know anything about what they are selling and don't care as long as they get paid or 3: The owners are so caught up with the volume of customers and/or the need to make that lease payment and profit margin that they really don't care what they sell you as long as you buy it. Think all that is BS? Remember, i'm just a consumer that has gone to MANY lfs...i was not always as exp. in this hobby that i am now. Follow what i'm saying? I've also been to a few LFS store that specialize in just salt water and the related dry goods...and i mean real quality stores. There IS a difference. Esp. when the owner can focus one one thing and actually cares about the life he/she sells.
Then there is the "basement" coral sellers. Now this is what i see in most of them. They are Passionate about the hobby and they have exp. and skills in it. Also, because "they" are specialists in that specific area ...they produce quality products!, They also, are some of the same people that you now see graduated into ownership OF those quality Reef LFS and have brought that passion with them. THEY are you only competition. Not the hobbyist and, to be honest, if your cryin about hobbyists in the reef hobby taking food from your mouths, maybe you're missing something important and need to take a step back and take an objective look at your own business. You should not be worrying about the little guys period. :amen: now stop yer whining!

 

[chill86]

Stop calling all these people "chop shops" and "gerage sellers" just to give them a bad name! This is America and these people are called hobbiest! They are free to do what ever they want in their homes! You think they are making a bunch of money but they are not. They still have to buy electricity, rent, water, additives, food, lights, pumps, tools, glue etc. You also have to factor in losses from online purchases and other losses from random bad things that happen and believe me, they happen allllllll the time! Most of these hobbiest are still going to the lfs to get one little thing and they walk out with a full cart. All of the lfs in my area have nothing but your everyday low end green corals and all of the hobbiest have your high end items. It really seems like the lfs should start buying cherries from hobbiest so they can get more constant clientel. I keep seeing so many lfs owners that are getting mad with hobbiest for doing this, when they should be looking at them like potential customers and friends. If they started being friendly to hobbiest, not only would the hobbiest come back to the store but they would spread the word about the good buisness ethics in which they stand by. To make a long story short, a little bit of positivity goes a long way! Like s2minute said now stop yer whining and go meet other hobbiest and lfs owners and let's all be friends!!!!!

 

[chill86]

"Aint nobody got time fo dis!":fish2:

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

I think that if you have a local "garage seller" and they have quality corals/fish and they can sell for less than your LFS, there is no down side.

I have "garage seller" connections a couple hours away that will take orders on fish/ corals and they charge less and know more than my LFS. I buy locally only when I have to due to my local shops being overpriced and having very limited selection.

 

[luke33]

Its always interesting to get all the different opinions around here : ) If garagesellers were all forced to stop, I would imagine we would loose many many of our coral sponsors here(pry even some equipment sponsors). IMO if they have a good product and offer good service, I will buy from them.

 

[Marquiseo]

I don't see an issue with it. If it is easier to sell from home, why would I bother opening a store. That's additional rent and utilities I will have to pay just to sell corals when I can use the space I have at home. Not that I am a garage seller but just using common sense. And if the person selling from home is "buying and fragging", so be it. Customers drive his action; if they aren't complaining about it, why are you. While the stores are focusing "home stores", they should focus on their store and why they are losing customers and/or not gaining any. Stores have the ability to network and grow business by obtaining different sources for their livestock.

 

[Allenfamily]

I'm curious as to wether or not people actually buy some of the stuff that is for sale by private parties? A few years ago buying from a private seller seemed to be a good way to go but when I look at the classifieds I have to wonder how much money the hobbyists are trying to make? I just saw a torch coral for $700 + shipping ???? $300 for an acro that is barely covering a frag plug?? Are people actully buying this stuff? I understand that high end corals are expensive but really?

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

I'm curious as to wether or not people actually buy some of the stuff that is for sale by private parties? A few years ago buying from a private seller seemed to be a good way to go but when I look at the classifieds I have to wonder how much money the hobbyists are trying to make? I just saw a torch coral for $700 + shipping ???? $300 for an acro that is barely covering a frag plug?? Are people actully buying this stuff? I understand that high end corals are expensive but really?

I have bought through LFS, garage sellers, Craigslist, etc. I feel that a person can ask whatever they want and it's my decision to either pay that amount, or not. I tend to look for deals, so if the price is ridiculous, I move on.

 

[OcalaReefGirl]

Unique Perspective

I am hoping that I have a little bit of a unique perspective. I can honestly see both side of the coins as I have been on both sides. I completely agree that most LFS have a very hard time competing with serious people out of their garage. I'm not talking about people that frag their own stock and sell. People that frag their own colonies have 10-15 different varieties. They are not a threat because after someone has been to their house 2-3 times they have all of their stock. Now in areas with several fish stores that are competing for the business it is very difficult when a serious garage person starts selling because the overhead is at least $3-5k less per month so they don't have to charge near the same price to make money. Especially people that chop and sell. Those are the people that are a danger to LFS staying open. I am a member of WAMAS as I see people everyday selling corals at super low prices and I am SO glad I am not a part of that market. I don't know how a LFS can compete with 3,000 people that frag out of their tanks. I am part of a very small market and we don't have their many growers.

Garage:
I started selling out of my garage over a year ago. Why? I didn't have $50-$100k to start a saltwater store. I am extremely passionate about the hobby but I have crunched the numbers and I would have to sell over $10k per month to pay overhead, loss, and pay myself. I know that isn't possible for 4-6 months of being open so I wouldn't be able to quit my job and actually man the store. I wouldn't trust anyone else to manage it so my only option was to run my garage business nights and weekends. I have all of my licensing, I pay sales and income taxes. I still had a lot of overhead as far as salt (10% water change a week is expensive), lights, additives, fish food, medicine, licenses. But no rent, or higher water and higher electrical costs.

I started with a very large set up with over 1000 gallons of corals and 300 gallons of fish. I propagated all of my corals. I quarantined all of my fish for 30 days and my business grew fast. The problem is I would have customers for several months and soon they would own everything I had, so I started focusing on also buying new SPS to grow out and LPS to sell (takes too long to grow). It was not difficult to get wholesale accounts if you meet the minimum order of $500-$750 depending on the store.

How I am different: After a few months I was getting a weekly customer base and starting to move my corals better. I am known for my expertise and I offer at least 2 classes a month ranging from true beginners to advanced reefers. I always try to get customers the right products over what would make me more money, a better fish, better inverts, I even teach how to find and buy used equipment. I will never sell something that will not be successful in someones tank and I care more about the animal that the money. I am so passionate about everything in the hobby that my goal is to get everyone into the perfect saltwater tank. I even buy used biocubes and clean and sell them (no profit) to people that come to my classes. I get used equipment donated to me that I am able to clean and give out (at no profit) to help someone with a tight budget for the simple things, like hydrometer, heaters, and powerheads when people upgrade.

Now I focus on coral selection but I know that as hard as I try my customers are also everyone else's customers. My biggest focus is in growing the hobby. I am always trying to get new customers into the hobby versus trying to get the LFS customers away from there. I would never speak bad about a LFS to try and get a customer to not shop there. As such I have a good reputation in town and we refer customer back and forth.

The best thing about having a garage business is that I can frag in my PJ's. After a long days work, I can feed my fish on my own schedule. I have limited hours a customer can come by and it is awesome not being locked into a schedule so I can pick up my daughter from school or go to the grocery store and make dinner it worked into my life and I loved it.

Now, I NEVER purchase a coral and chop it up. I wait a minimum of 3 months to have i++++++++++++++++t fully headed and acclimated. I will cut the coral and usually sell half and keep growing the rest so I will have a mother colony for the future. I heal all of my corals 3-4 weeks before they are available for sale. I try to run my business they way I would want it run as a customer. My prices are fair, but not cheap. My local fish stores carry almost no coral (they refer customers to me) so I would never try to undercut them. I do act like a LFS and purchase frags from other reefers in the community.

Fish Store:
With that said, I am opening a fish store in 1 week! I have gotten to the point that I have enough confidence that I will be able to open and meet my hard bills, not my salary or anyone to help, but my rent, electric, etc. I am hoping that with the exposure I will be able to build the business faster and not work my other job in a few months. As a store I have 800 gallons of frags and colonies for sale, plus my entire backroom to continue growing and propagating helping to keep my cost low. I carry $5 frags up to $750 colonies so people can choose what they are looking for.

LFS have to evolve!!! I think the key for store is to provide super healthy corals, amazing selection, at really good prices. I can offer good prices because I grow 70% of my corals. I would rather sell a coral for $20 in one day and either buy or frag another one than have it sit there for 3 months at $50. The issue people have with people selling out of their house is that they can under cut them. If you grow your own then they have a hard time doing that. Would you rather go to someones house and see 10 frags for $10 each of go to a fish store with 200 frags for $15 each. I have embraced the small garage growers (they aren't going away!). I will buy their corals for $10 each if they are unique or cool (then they aren't my competition) and sell them at my store for $15-$20 depending on what they are. A lot of garage growers aren't in the hobby to build a customer base and sell frags. Their colonies are growing so they frag and make some money. I treat them like awesome wholesalers that are selling me healthy aquacultured frags.

The hardest part of the fish store business (I have managed a store in the past) is that you can't compete with drygoods. If you follow MAP pricing that we are REQUIRED to follow, they match it (or beat it) on amazon and ship it to their doorstep for free. Many wholesalers are selling it to customers as well, so the people I buy from are my DIRECT competition.

Training employees and knowledge is key in maintaining a great reputation. Whether you are a garage business, wholesaler, or LFS the actions should always be in the best interest of the hobby. People will come to you if they think you will give them great advice and great prices!

 

[thejuggernaut]

That is a great example of the old saying, "There is always room at the top." Provide the best service you can, be passionate about your product or service, and the customers will find you. In most cases, I would imagine that people who are complaining about loosing business aren't really being honest with themselves about why they are loosing business.

Guess what, all business is competitive. There is always someone willing to do it cheaper, but that usually translates to less customer service, lower quality products, and an overall cheaper experience. Almost anyone is willing to pay a LITTLE more to deal with someone who is competent and passionate about their profession. Reef aquariums are no different.

Innovate, work hard, and smile while doing both! If you start looking like you don't want to be there, or you hate your job, or you are annoyed your customers don't know any better and ask stupid questions, then they won't be your customers very much longer. It takes a certain type of person to own their own business. If you wake up most days thinking "ugh, I have to go to the store", vs. "So, how can I make the store better today?", then you need to go get a job working for someone else who will ask those questions for you.

I understand it is a job, and everyone has days where they would rather just stay in bed, but that can't be your everyday! Go out there and make your business the best you can, and I bet you'll do just fine.

 

[ca1ore]

'Garage Seller' is an unnecessarily pejorative term. I don't think there is anything wrong with hobbyists selling frags from their tanks to other hobbyists; and, yes, it clearly hurts the LFS. If a hobbyist is successful enough to start a more substantial home-based frag business, then more power to them. Though it does result in a profusion of silly names and overpriced 'rarities'. Personally, I have neither the time nor the inclination to sell frags. I either trade them with fellow reefers or offer them to my LFS for store credit. But that's my personal choice.