What to do after a rip clean?

[bozo]

Pretty spot on guys

The gha came back much less and in a different way. It’s no longer long.

Instead I went to my old skool methods and just tossed in a crap ton of trochus snails.

they’re keeping everything at bay and slowly coralline is taking over the rocks as the tank is maturing.

I’ve been away for 15 days on vacation and the video cam of the tank shows the snails molesting the rocks all day lol.

For me this reaffirms the logic that we need both herbivores and manual removal along with tank maturity

I’ll stilll take my rock out and drill brush the hell hot of them if I need to. I have zero shame in doing that. I’ve been doing that from time to time over the years until I couldn’t anymore due to corals completely encrusting the rock lol.

So I think both logics work in my opinion.

 

[brandon429]

Did you reduce the light intensity

 

[brandon429]

Isn’t it true your corals did not crash

You didn’t have fish losses

There’s absolutely no indication of ‘biome loss’ right that you can see, regarding functionality of the system?

I don’t see a negative downside of your rip clean so far, I see positive.

That’s how every rip clean happens if they’re ran right. That initial removal done outside the tank saved you from recirculating dead mass through various feed loops in the tank that would finally manifest as dinos or incurable cyano

The predictability factor is what makes rip cleans positive, not negative, that and the fact I can find a hundred examples of them to read with positive outcomes after the fact. Nice follow up

Can we get a tank pic update then I’ll post that in some rip clean threads / everybody is bent on tracking them after the fact and you’re providing really good post rip clean details

 

[brandon429]

A formal request for Garf and JDA



I’m genuinely interested in seeing any tank rehab works you’ve completed, can be accountable for outcomes, since the date this thread started. We want to compare non rip clean methods and we need to see your recent jobs to run that comparison

 

[tautog83]

Do you even own a tank ?

 

[BeanAnimal]

-I would not introduce any animals as cuc...

...I wouldn't trust them. one reefer's margarita snail who cleared a forest is some other poster's waste pellet machine / x 200 per hour lol but doesn't actually touch the plant. the degree of compliant ones aren't worth the disease vector risk in my opinion, I don't use cuc's in any of my threads. that allows for non compliance. a person willing to cause compliance directly with the rock removed will win every time.

How can CUC be pellet machines if they are not eating? What do they eat... algea, detritus, excess fish food, etc.
How did we get to the point where you are telling people that snails are bad? That just makes zero sense.

The OP has an excess algae issue (it is not an invader, it is NATURAL part of the reef). You advice is to not add a CUC - dim the lights and then feed the coral more to compensate of the dimmed lights. Brandon, if the lights are dim and the coral are less active, do they need MORE food, or is that just adding more waste to the water column and therefore feeding the algae problem?

if we dehabituate your system to fluc, it can be a powerful catchup cheat there's no other additives I'd try either. I would in the least manually keep that system free of invasion using dentistry on the counter alone until some other magic cure comes about in a few years. they'll find one eventually.

Why complicate things with awkward wording. Simply tell the OP that fluc and similar treatments can have side effects that include killing beneficial organisms and throwing off biological and/or chemical balance.

The question is not how to get rid of the algae (again it is a natural part of every reef) but how to keep it from thriving and more importantly WHY is it thriving? Why not spend the time identifying the issue and solving it?

 

[brandon429]

What difference would it make to this particular job

Would me owning a giant successful reef tank fix Bozo’s reef? JDA and Garf own successful reef tanks, if we get some updates from them on jobs ran we can see if owning a reef tank at home matters in the results we gain for others

I find that’s the lead-in default question when someone feels motivated to really evolve a work thread with practice/experience links on file/ sincere insight. They nearly always follow up with pertinent and helpful work examples.



have you ever worked an outbound job or tank challenge that wasn't yours to completion we can see? What you own at home isn’t what I’m asking to see.

 

[BeanAnimal]

jda

you already know what our results look like in rip clean threads, it's searchable, yet you never lead with work examples you concluded recently

I would expect after removing all of the rock form a tank and manually scrubbing the algae away, that there would be no immediate algae problem in the tank.

Your posted advice has been to perform "rip cleans" every 12 months, or sooner as needed? Why would that be?

Manual removal is certainly a means to get nuisance algae growth under control, but if the cause of the growth is not identified and fixed, then it will typically just come back.

since you're posting, we need to see some jobs you completed that match this one.

Please stop using "we". It is just you that demands successful reefers with decades of experience prove their advice to YOU.

 

[BeanAnimal]

What difference would it make to this particular job

Adding animals that eat both the detritus and excess nutrients that fuels the algae growth and/or the algae itself is the difference.

 

[bozo]

 

[twentyleagues]

Sorry these threads always devolve. Its unfortunate because they are all right. To fix the problem steps need to be taken. The root problem needs to be addressed "rip clean" is a temporary fix if other concerns are not handled. As you found out. Adding cuc helped you it seems, atm.

I get exacerbated by the lengthy wording used to describe something so simple along with the missing simple explanation of what comes next. I agree turning down the lights and feeding more doesnt make sense. When I say this don't tell me to go look it up. When I ask questions don't ask me how many times or links to something I have done to fix a tank just give the info. If you are here to help then do so explain in simple english without all the embellishment or the go look it up.

Works, Jobs, sounds like you are going to start or have started a business and are about to try making money of consultation. But I guess cleaning up a neglected tank is a job and you must do work to complete the job, just sounds off-putting to me.

 

[brandon429]

Bozo can we see the tank update pic I sure was interested to see it

Nice word salad Twenty. You coming here to critique me vs help on the job aside from nonspecific advice is off putting to me


Threads devolve because people who aren’t invested in the work insert themselves solely to jeer, from the stands.

It’s not a business, I’ve been remotely working on reefs for twenty years free the work is findable on any reef forum but trolls want the spoon feeding.





Since the start of this thread I’ve been sincerely giving Bozo a customized analysis of his tank based on the last thousand we worked.

By we, Bean, I mean people willing to engage in sensible dialog and formulate an action + log the results= that’s two or more people running a specific game plan. Playing English teacher for a day is a helpful way to divert from the specific request to you, to see relevant algae work threads that would help us here get options.



after being asked to post here I made my analysis personalized to the tank at hand, focusing all energy on the tank at hand. I made specific predictions about outcome, and am here today to check on that part. The outcomes here will be factored into other jobs we do very soon and those links will be searchable like the others.



It’s shocking to me that critics simply won’t post a better way they’ve ran and make comparisons using that actual work link so we can stay on a specific focus about the tank, nor will they start any new jobs this week we can track out for May if we subscribe to them to watch for new works. Simply no actual work is coming.

The sole frame of reference for advice in help threads can’t just be someone’s successful tank at home. That doesn’t actually get jobs done for others.

 

[Troylee]

I’m not gonna argue who’s right or wrong here but I will say this.. if this was my tank and I went to the extreme of cleaning every single rock my first plan of attack after that would be…
DIY coral snow aka calcium carbonate mixed with zeobak and mb7 to coat all the surfaces of the clean rock.. this allows the snow “binder” to coat all the freshly new surfaces with good bacteria and give it a better shot and not returning with algae!I’ve done this every time I add dry rock to my display and I’ve never seen a spec of algae in my tank it works great!

 

[brandon429]

I’ll be using this thread as a link example for future job preps once the update pics take up some pages. Pictures are how my friends and I track prediction and outcome in reef tank work

Work thread job defined: Bozo has thousands of dollars in that tank and we are watching to see if highly specific actions advised by me harm or help those animals.

High value is on the line, it's a job with a lot on the line.

 

[brandon429]

@Troylee

Well said. That’s helpful as an option to guide the surfaces back to a matured state. Algae is going to want that primary real estate for sure in the interim

I’m going back to re read about light levels changed or kept, those details will tie in very well with the pics coming up.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Nice word salad.

The irony in that statement is monumental to anybody who has read your lengthy posts riddled with purposefully awkward language and self coined terminology.

he work is findable but trolls want the spoon feeding.

Nobody is trolling you. You post, people respond.

It’s done free for two reasons: every tank fixed/control given back to the reefer is info and feedback I use to make my own reef live another decade. This work circles back to my own tank which is never posted in work jobs I do because apparently owning a big nice reef at home doesn’t actually get outbound jobs done and logged.

You dabble in 2 gallons of water and see yourself as a "reef scientist" running lab experiments through "controlled outbound work jobs" on other people's tanks. Great! The rest of us don't see you that way, but you are free to do you.

The rest of us just enjoy our reefs and participating in a community where we trade information and help each other in ways other than "work threads". That does not invalidate our experience, knowledge or advice.

The issue is that the vast majority of your posts are in one form or another an attack against everyone in this hobby that does subscribe to your methodology or the conclusions that you draw. You appear to be in a perpetual contest to prove that we are all full of crap if we don't prove ourselves to you by doing "outbound work jobs".

Here we are on yet another thread where people may not agree with your advice and instead of actually having a conversation that defends your advice you (as always) fall back to crying about trolls, good advice only coming form work threads and not trusting anybody who does not perform "outbound work".

So to the point:

You indicated that snails should not be added to a system like this because they poop too much and will be a detriment, not a help. You indicated that turning down the lights and feeding more would prevent the algae from returning and allow the corals to thrive. Most of us don't agree. That was the conversation that you deflected away from to issue thinly veiled insults and ramblings about trolls and people dodging work.

By we, Bean, I mean people willing to engage in sensible dialog and formulate an action + log the results that takes more than one person.

This thread (this site) is full of well meaning people providing sensible dialog. Much of the advice is contrary to yours. That's all.

 

[twentyleagues]

Bozo can we see the tank update pic I sure was interested to see it

Nice word salad Twenty. You coming here to critique me vs help on the job aside from nonspecific advice is off putting to me


Threads devolve because people who aren’t invested in the work insert themselves solely to jeer, from the stands.

It’s not a business, I’ve been remotely working on reefs for twenty years free the work is findable on any reef forum but trolls want the spoon feeding.





Since the start of this thread I’ve been sincerely giving Bozo a customized analysis of his tank based on the last thousand we worked.

By we, I mean people willing to engage in sensible dialog and formulate an action + log the results= that takes more than one person.

Most of my work threads attract troll comments who aren’t part of the job, and never will be asked to run one-readers here can simply read anyones post history to determine motivation for being in any thread.

Readers see who stays around for job completions, or if their procedural advice has patterned outcomes- or any outcomes at all.

after being asked to post here I made my analysis personalized to the tank at hand, focusing all energy on the tank at hand. I made specific predictions about outcome, and am here today to check on that part. The outcomes here will be factored into other jobs we do very soon and those links will be searchable like the others.

I wouldn’t think that anyones presence here other than Bozo’s is an attempt to honestly work this job to completion, it’s been solely about criticizing my approach to the job so far as I read the evaluation from the stands. I’ve asked to see links from people who’ve played on the field, I would enjoy seeing some alternate ways posters here have fixed large tank algae invasions for others.

This is what I mean. Searchable, go find my examples, searchable, go find it......
If I have an issue I have probably already researched it and could not find a good plan that I have not tried already. You could post a link to the specific issue you have "jobbed" and show the work that was done and it staying done. What changes did the job owner implement after the rip clean. I think you get a lot of pushback because of this. I am not naysaying you or the work just the way or lack of info given.

I found your stuff because I was just coming back to the hobby after 12+ years and started on this forum and saw a lot of new cycle science vs old. I didnt understand how things changed or why they would so I researched. A lot of postings came up from you. Which I read and asked questions on, true life questions that you replied to go search it. How do you think I found this in the first place? Now I am asking for further explanation that I dont seem to be finding and you tell me, us, them just go look it up. You are the guy! Spoon feed us your info if you have to its part of the teaching process.

You are the most vocal person on "rip cleans" and "new cycle science" there for you are the spokes person. Please supply the needed info.

Again I am not bashing, Trolling or saying anything derogatory about the "work" or "jobs" or you ( well other then the work and jobs part maybe lol). Help us understand.

 

[BeanAnimal]

there isn’t a book or an article talking about what we are in process doing here

Of course there are books and articles... as well as a hobby full of experience. The issues is that you refuse to acknowledge any of it as valid.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I’m not gonna argue who’s right or wrong here but I will say this.. if this was my tank and I went to the extreme of cleaning every single rock my first plan of attack after that would be…
DIY coral snow aka calcium carbonate mixed with zeobak and mb7 to coat all the surfaces of the clean rock.. this allows the snow “binder” to coat all the freshly new surfaces with good bacteria and give it a better shot and not returning with algae!I’ve done this every time I add dry rock to my display and I’ve never seen a spec of algae in my tank it works great!

That is actually something that could be done in a controlled experiment with some simplicity. I wonder of it does work, if that bacteria matter or just most surfaces being covered with the flocculant?

 

[twentyleagues]

I’m not gonna argue who’s right or wrong here but I will say this.. if this was my tank and I went to the extreme of cleaning every single rock my first plan of attack after that would be…
DIY coral snow aka calcium carbonate mixed with zeobak and mb7 to coat all the surfaces of the clean rock.. this allows the snow “binder” to coat all the freshly new surfaces with good bacteria and give it a better shot and not returning with algae!I’ve done this every time I add dry rock to my display and I’ve never seen a spec of algae in my tank it works great!

That is actually something that could be done in a controlled experiment with some simplicity. I wonder of it does work, if that bacteria matter or just most surfaces being covered with the flocculant.

I have just started this in my system. I have not seen that I can tell any difference as to what algae is inhibited from attaching to the surfaces. I dont have huge issues either. I have small algae greenish slime cyano maybe that pops up on the rocks and some spots on the sand. Its all small spots, blows off easily or is siphoned easily. It does clear the water though! Also glass cleaning has been reduced. Skimmer seems to work more efficiently. I have not test nitrates or phosphates since I started but I would guess they are reduced possibly as well. I need to quite being lazy and test them.