Vertex Puratek 100gph RO/DI

mfdrookie516 · Mar 10, 2012

I just picked one of these up today... slightly used. Since my water pressure upstairs isn't all that great, I've been making water in the basement, then carrying it up to the first floor, catching my breath, then going on upstairs with it. Now I won't have to since I got this unit. Here are my questions-

1 - It had some water in it that smelled nasty. I've run it for about 30 minutes, flushed it several times... TDS is bouncing between 0 and 1. Is it safe to assume now that the smell is gone that all is well, or should I change out the membrane and filters just for the heck of it? The previous owner said it hadn't had much water made through it.

2 - How the heck do I set up an auto shut off on this thing? I turned the water supply off and the pump kept running... so I'm guessing a standard float valve won't work. I pulled the plug on the pump and it stopped the water, giving me the impression that a float switch would be appropriate for this unit.

I've tried finding the answers to both of these questions with little help. There's hardly any info out there on this unit... and not sure that stinky water from an ro/di unit is a common thing haha.

revhtree · Mar 11, 2012

I would run a good amount of water through those filters and then test them. If all test well I would use it myself.

As far as an auto top goes how are you wanting to set this up?

Like you want it to auto top off your tank, your freshwater reservoir, or your top water supply that's not linked to your tank?

AZDesertRat · Mar 12, 2012

Disinfect the system then replace at least the sediment and carbon filters and the DI resin.
The membrane, if it has stayed wetted should be good but cannot be disinfected with bleach.

I have posted disinfection instructions many many times on all the reef forums.

In all honesty, I hope you got a really good deal on that system, they do not receive many good reviews and are put together pretty shoddy depending on wjhich model you got. I even found their supposed low waste system had 120v AC power to the soldenoids and just wire nutted together, a lawsuit waiting to happen. Any good vendor uses 24v DC and seals the connections so they are intrisically safe.

mfdrookie516 · Mar 12, 2012

Yeah, I got a really good deal on it ($50 and traded something I couldn't give away to anyone else). The ONLY reason I even got it was because of the booster pump and the fact that I can piece together a nice system out of it. The exposed wire nuts were definitely odd to see, but whatever works I guess. I need to look for some of your posts. I guess 'disinfecting' would have been handy in my google searches, rather than what I was using.

I've read a lot of conflicting info on them. Some people have said they go through membranes like crazy because of the supposed 1:1 ratio, some people love them. If anything, I can use the system I had and hook the pump in to it and be good to go. So, in your eyes, I'd be best off just starting from scratch with the filters, resin, and membrane? I can do that, I just hate to replace everything when it hasn't made hardly any water... but the more I think about it, the better it sounds.

Rev - as far as the top off is concerned, I'm just wanting to set it up so that I can leave it unattended to fill my trash can to hold water before mixing or filling up my ato reservoir (I forget with my current setup and usually end up mopping the basement floor haha). I'm just confused as to whether it needs a standard float valve, like every other ro/di unit, or if this one requires a switch because of the pump.

AZDesertRat · Mar 12, 2012

Does the unit have an autoshutoff valve? It should also have a built in pressure switch somewhere.
If it has both either a float valve should work but would not be the best choice since it leads to frequent cycling on and off and TDS creep. A solenoid and float switches is the better chouice as it allows you to set a range between on and off with two switches so you get good long filter runs which cleanse the membrane. This is especially important if you expect to reduce the waste ratio at all, but I will tell you the Vertex method of reducing the waste and using tap water to flush does not work well and why the membranes fail quickly. ALL RO membranes must be flushed period, there is no way of getting around it. Reducing the waste ratio causes TDS to build up or concentrate and solidify on the membrane causing failure. The only proven ways around this are chemical treatments like large scale commercial systems use where they take it out of service and either clean the membrane in place with acids and caustics or they remove the membrane and soak it on a timed cycle. The other proven method is how Spectrapure does it with their MaxCap UHE which uses stored DI water to backflush the membrane at timed intervals then to double backwash it and pickle or store it in DI on shutdown. Very different than tap water.

You can use the booster but good replacement filters are only $12 and $13 for a 0.5 micron absolute rated sediment and 0.5 micron 20,000 gallon carbon block and a replacement 90 GPD specially treated and individually hand tested and guaranteed better than 98% rejection rate RO membrane and matched capillary tube flow restrictor is only $44. I would set the restrictor at no less than 3:1 waste ratio though or you will soon be reoplacing whatever membrane you buy.

I have a pressure switch, solenoid valve and float switches on my UHE system and it is hooked to a 23 gallon Rubbermaid Recycling can so it makes 11 gallons per cycle. It is running at 0.67:1 or less than 1:1 waste ratio, uses DI to flush and has been running for almost 4 years now at a 99.35 to 99.43% rejection rate on RO only and DI lasts about a year per cartridge with my 630+/- tap water TDS. There are systems that work but the Vertex is not one of them but for $50 you got some good parts to assemble a nice system.

AZDesertRat · Mar 12, 2012

I found one of my old threads on disinfection and troubleshooting techniques:
Nano-Reef.com Forums > ro/di unit tds reading 003 need help

mfdrookie516 · Mar 12, 2012

Thanks for the detail! I'm very new to ro/di systems, and while I've done a lot of reading, a lot still doesn't make sense to me. I'm more of a hands on learner, so reading doesn't do a lot for me. Looking at my unit, I have the booster pump, a solenoid for the automatic back flush, and the RO membrane on top... then 3 canisters below it. Water enters from the right, so I assume it goes Sediment - Carbon - RO - DI. Part of the online description says "High-pressure automatic shut-off valve". The way it will be set up, there shouldn't be any constant cycling. I fill up my 20 gallon ATO reservoir every week or so, and it's about 15 gallons at a time. Other than that, the only other water I use is for PWC's, which is 20 gallons at a time every week or so... so It'll have to be used twice a week, give or take.

AZDesertRat · Mar 12, 2012

If you hooked it up with a float valve you would need to manuallyshut the system off after making a fresh batch of water otherwise when the float valve drops 1/10" or whatever it would start all over again. Thats the problem with float valves, they have very limited travel and little adjustment.
If you make water then shut the supply off it would not come on again until you turned it back on again, sort of manual but at least it should shut off initially when the trashcan is full and not overflow.
I set my float switches 12" apart so it has to drop that 12" before it could possibly start again, that works out to 11 gallons in my case in the Rubbermaid can.

Yes, you should have sediment, carbon block, RO membrane then DI in that order. If it has a pressure switch it should be visible on the treated water line somewhere with wires coming out of it, possibly some of the wire nutted connections?

mfdrookie516 · Mar 12, 2012

I'm going to go down and get some pictures of it in a few minutes when I get a chance. I'll post them to verify that it is set up correctly. I have the paperwork that came with it, but it is VERY lacking... doesn't tell me anything I don't already know about it.

I wouldn't mind the semi-manual aspect of it. In fact, that would be perfectly fine. It's just that it's really hard to make water when I have to run and check on it every so often, and I tend to forget if I get busy... so that would work well.

mfdrookie516 · Mar 12, 2012

Ok, so here they are. I'll number them and post what I think they are... Clearing up the parts should help me understand what I'm working with.

1 - Whole unit. Water enters the right side, exits the left. I'm guessing from right to left it is the sediment filter, carbon block, and DI cartridge. Obviously the membrane on top.

2 - Pump and guage. It sits right at 100psi while operating

3 - TDS meter. This must also be the 'brains' of the operation, as it counts down from 15 when it starts up while it flushes the system

4 - that wiring you mentioned

5 - I'm not real sure what this is. It resembles the deal you set up with a float valve on a standard system... but I can't see the back (might need to take this thing apart to see where it goes)

6 - Again, not real sure. Looks to be some sort of solenoid

7 - Looks like this sytem runs on 24 volts

8 - some sort of switch? just has one inlet, no outlet... and some wires coming off the top

AZDesertRat · Mar 12, 2012

Pic 1- You are correct, tap water enters from the right, through the sediment and carbon block filters, up to the RO membrane then back down to the DI cartridge. On the top back you also see the inline fixed type flow restrictor. One thing that really concerns me is the tee on the front of the sediment filter. It appears they use unfiltered tap water as in not even sediment removal or carbon to remove the chlorine to flush the system via the solenoid valves, this is assinine for a couple of reasons. For one you are now introducing possibly sediment laden water o the membrane and worse than that it contains chlorine since it has not been through the carbon block to remove it. Completely unacceptable if that is the way it is plumbed but I am nots sure since it looks like spaghetti going everywhere.

Pic 2- Again you are correct. I wil point out the use a generic or clone pump and not the industry standard Aquatec 8800 which has been proven for decades.

Pic 3- What you see is in fact the brain, it is basically an electronic timer with some indicator lights, it really has no logic or intelligence aside from timer function.

Pic 4- I won't even go into the wiring, thats a cluster for sure! I would be ashamed of myself if I tried to pass that mess off on anyone.

Pic 5- Is a solenoid valve in the foreground and possibly an autoshutoff valve? in the background. You could unsnap the RO membrane housing from the top bracket C clamps to get a better look. The solenoid along with the one in Pic 6 are what changes the flow to flush the system on a timed basis.

Pic 6- Mentioned above.

Pic 7- The 24v DC power supply for the pump and solenoids.

Pic 8- Is the pressure switch that turns the pump on and off.

I am not sure if it is plumbed correctly or not since they do not use the industry standard color conventions most RO and RO/DI vendors use for their 1/4" tubings, ie. Black- Raw or Tap Water, Blue- Treated Water, Yellow- Waste or Brine Water etc. The colors make it easy to trace the lines and confirm if they are hooked up right.

mfdrookie516 · Mar 13, 2012

Thanks for clearing a lot of that up! I think my next task is going to be to dissassemble the entire unit, buy some new tubing and replacement media, and get it all set up the correct way. Might even change the design around and run two carbon blocks and add a separate dual DI canister.

AZDesertRat · Mar 13, 2012

There is no reason for two carbon blocks as long as you use a high quality, low micron sediment filter to protect the single 0.5 or 0.6 carbon block.

Take a look at companies like Spectrapure who have been designing, building and selling RO and RO/DI systems for over 25 years in Tempe AZ. They use a single carbon block on all their popular systems and have done so forever. They have done thousands of hours of research and found with todays filter capabilities two carbons is a waste of money and can actually be worse since it can reduce the pressure available to the membrane reducing the rejection rate.

Use one 0.5 micron absolute rated sediment filter, one 0.5 micron 20,000 gallon carbon block, the RO membrane and either one or two DI filters. I use two DI filters. I use the MaxCap DI resin in the first and the SilicaBuster DI resin in the second and get about a year out of the MaxCap and 3 years out of the SilicaBuster.

Middle of the page here for a sale on all the filters and resins:
Untitled Document

Here is the manual for Spectrapure's UHE-100 system. Note how it uses float switches and the microprocessor to enable stored DI water to be used for the backwash. Many of the components are similar as you can see but the processor is programmed much differently than yours. Several imported companies tried to copy the uHE but missed the most important piece, the DI backwash instead of using tap water.
http://www.spectrapure.com/manuals/PRINTER_FRIENDLY/MC-RODI-100UHE.pdf