Must we throw chemicals at everything?

LittleDabOSalt · Jul 29, 2011

Ok, maybe its just me and my noobness ( is that really a word? lol ) but I've noticed something while doing my "homework" learning what to do and not to do with my tank, it seems that more often than not someone always has the "right" chemical for the job, meaning if there is a problem there is a chemical to throw in to rectify the situation.

Now I realize sometimes chemicals are needed; your Calcium is low, you may have to add, something else too high, again you may have to add but I'm talking about problematic things we run across like cyano, hair algae, aptasia etc.... I'm a bit puzzled as to why some lean so heavily on that instant chemical fix instead of working through the problem more naturally? Am I missing something? Are chemicals really all that needed simply because we're bringing something into our home that was never meant to be "caged" if you will? Or am I just seeing what seems at least to a newbie looking in, nothing more than a product of our fast paced society where instant gratification is a must?

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying those that use chemicals are wrong. I believe each one of us will probably have our own unique way of looking at this, I pose it more as something to think about and discuss. How do you feel about it and why?

Troylee · Jul 29, 2011

couldnt agree more.... any chemical besides the norm cal, alk, mag etc is not really needed.... i hate the way people jump and say use algae fix or chemi clean ya sure it works "band aid!" but it's not the cure most of the time it's only time that you need to let the algae burn out or add flow etc.... put a fuge online with macro algae etc... chemicals are from the answer imho.... well at least when you have a problem.... the only chemicals i use are those that get depleted from my tank water by live stock... no meds of any sort!!!!

Dave3112 · Jul 29, 2011

Chemicals for algae fixes are not needed nor are they actual "fixes". They just Get rid of the problem for a short time. If you don't solve the actual problem causing the outbreak it will come back. Algae are a natural occurring element of a reef tank and different ones come and go as the tank "matures" Cyano is a bacteria and not an algae. It is somewhat fueled by light as is algae, but it is actually a bacteria. but there are natural ways to "fix" these problems. Less feeding, macro algae in the sump/fuge................... the list is long.

LittleDabOSalt · Jul 29, 2011

One of the very first things I was ever told about saltwater seems to ring true, at least for me and it's the same way I've raised my dogs for the show ring and worked to improve my bloodline. " Nothing good ever happens fast " in this hobby. In my honest opinion it seems that looking for those quick fixes are indeed just that, a band-aid as Troylee stated so well and without actually getting to the root of the problem a problem that will return eventually - thanks Dave.

I couldn't come up with the right words but yes exactly! "the only chemicals i use are those that get depleted from my tank water by live stock." That is how I am with my tank as well and I feel that in time it will bring about great results. On many of the issues I see it seems to me that if you throw chemicals at something long enough eventually a resistance builds, the problem mutates, becomes stronger yet just a little different and then what? Why fight that constant battle?

revhtree · Jul 29, 2011

Nice topic!

I don't use any chemicals much at all. I have on occasion used chemiclean but for the most part never been a big chemical user.

Tab28 · Jul 29, 2011

Why would the way people keep reef tanks be any different than any other thing that needs fixing. This is a society where it is easier to medicate your unrulely children than be a parnent and teach them patience. It is easier to take a diet pill to loose weight than to learn self control and put the twinkies away. We are a medicated nation. It is easier to allow someone or something else to fix the problem then "waste" the time to do it ourselves.

EliteReefs · Jul 29, 2011

i agree. its all not needed. i look at some tanks and they look like a dang science project. wires. tube. chemicals all sorts of contraptions. its crazy. every tank i have ever had was a tank, sump, quality rock, sand, a big skimmer and some filter bags. sometimes i will run carbon and if the tank at that time happened to have alot of sps i would dose ca.

other then that i do nothing but regular water changes with tropic pro and thats it. never had algae problem. no tank crashes. no crazy swings, great color and growth. i find that keep it simple smart stupid is what works best for me. some people make this hobby WAY to complicated sometimes

beaslbob · Jul 29, 2011

You have a valid point in the original post.

Except for calcium, magnesium, and alk (carbonate) I use no chemicals at all other then water and for marine systems salt. For Calcium I dose with sidewalk ice melter (calcium chloride), magnesium with epsom salts and another ice melter (magnesium chloride), and alk (carbonate) with baking soda.

I also do no water changes but do use a wet dry (a wasebasket) with crushed oyster shell filter media in a marine tank and no filters in my fw tanks.

I have found over the years it is best to start the tank in a balanced way (with lotsa plant life) and basically let the tank take care of itself.

my .02

LittleDabOSalt · Jul 29, 2011

I've learned that nature designed the ocean to function under it's own specific laws. That means certain causes will bring about very specific effects or results. The ocean, in my opinion is designed to clean itself, supply itself, feed itself, etc. all according to a specific set pattern. It works by itself without any aid from us. But, because we've cut it off from natural nutrition etc...by creating our own little slice of the ocean in our homes and replaced it with chemicals, isn't it really inevitable that problems would be the result?

Now, one could argue that in essence aren't all chemicals we have "natural" since they came from the earth in one form or another? Anyone care to play the devil's advocate here? I'd like to hear from those that feel chemicals aren't all that bad when used properly.

Raggamuffin · Jul 29, 2011

I do water changes.... I run carbon for a bit after I frag, I dip before things come into or go out of my tank. Once every week if I happen to remember I pour in some kalk. That is the extent of my "chems". I have *some* hair algea but not much, I have *some* cyano but again not much, I leave it alone and the CUC takes care of most of it.

saltbitten · Jul 29, 2011

I agree you don't just throw stuff in your tank.my sino was bad and I heard about this guy that treated his with this red slim chemical that he said he got from our local store. And he cleared up the sino then he got some green hair algae. My sino was so bad that I got some of the chemical thinking that it's worth taking the chance just to get rid of the sino. Luckily when I got it home I changed my mind and decided to wait it out. Did some water changes used a baster and it's almost all gone. and I have no hair algae . My point is let nature take it's course and use chems as a last resort not as a first choice.By they way this is my first post on here and littledabosalt is my wife of 26 wonderfull years.

Battlecorals · Jul 29, 2011

I pretty much go by the rule of thumb.

"if you cant test for it, don't add it"

This has worked for for years.

Troylee · Jul 29, 2011

Battlecorals said:
I pretty much go by the rule of thumb.

"if you cant test for it, don't add it"

This has worked for for years.

yeah I did also but that would bring us to the np pellet band wagon..... Are all these people wrong for doing so????

Battlecorals · Jul 29, 2011

Not at all. I just have yet to go that route. I would say that would be the exception. I'm just still stuck in the early aught's with my big old skimmer and over sized refugiums.1smile1

SAZAMA · Jul 29, 2011

technology is great ehhh!!! before you knock it, remember this hobby is relatively new. remember what they used say about skimmers.

melev · Jul 29, 2011

Let's list the chemicals being discussed in this thread. The only one I read was Chemi-clean, which is a great solution to resolve cyano bacteria. If you want to wait it out, that's your call but be there daily to blow it off the corals that are being smothered otherwise. If you do a little reading on Cyano bacteria, you'll discover it is a natural substance in fresh, brackish and saltwater. When you don't see it, you don't care. When it blooms and you see it day after day after day, marring your tank - well you need to deal with it. One non-chemical solution is to leave the lights off for three days. Problem solved. Some corals may not fare so well, but you didn't use chemicals.

Baking Soda / Soda Ash is used for Alkalinity. It is Part 1 of many kits that have been offered for nearly two decades for reef tanks.
Calcium chloride is used for Calcium needs. It is Part 2 of many kits as well.
Magnesium chloride / Epsom Salt is used for Magnesium deficiency. It is usually referred to as Part 3 of the Two Part Kit.

Read up on these: An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Biopellets was just tossed in the mix. I've been using them for six months with excellent results. I have not needed to use:
Granular Ferric Oxide (GFO) for Phosphate
nor Phosphate Control (Lanthanum chloride)
nor Vodka, vinegar, or sugar to deal with nitrates.

My salt mix is Sybon Reef salt, and provides great numbers that don't need to be adjusted prior to being used in my tank.

I run my system with a DSB, Refugium, Skimmer, Biopellets, Carbon, Calcium Reactor, and live rock. I use RO/DI water, which I check often to make sure nothing vile slips in.

My numbers are good.

And even with great numbers, Cyano began to take over in my frag tank, which is a 10g setup that is tied into my 400g system. Why? Well, I feed suncorals often and the nutrient level was enough to tip the scales in that system. I closed the valve four days ago and treated the 10g system with Chemi Clean Liquid. Today, the frag area is cyano-free. I'm going to drain 8g of water out of the tank, and reopen the valve to let it fill up with water from my sump, and replace what is lost with newly mixed saltwater. Problem solved. Not a big deal.

Not all chemicals are evil. Some are valuable tools, ones I wouldn't be without. Prime is another one, but that's another topic entirely.

drainbamage · Jul 29, 2011

I rarely use chemicals to solve problems- however I do use basic elements to help out-

Mineral depletion gets solved by addition of minerals (not a chemical)

Excess nutrients get solved by carbon dosing ( using bacteria to help consume nutrients)

Coral infections get often dipped in iodine, however I will use a chemical such as coralRX depending on the problem.

The trap a lot of 'newbies' fall into is the fish store advice- be wary of the guy who's job depends on selling you stuff for all the hypochondria conditions that come along with starting into the reefing hobby. Often times a chemical fix is actually the best means (such as adding chemi-pure into the water) but more often than not, if a person isn't familiar enough to diagnose the problem, and is then asking a salesman for help, you better believe a bottle of snake oil will be used to fix it owing to both persons lack of situational awareness.

LittleDabOSalt · Jul 30, 2011

I agree that many new people, myself included could quickly fall into the trap of that false sense of security when talking with their lfs staff and end up purchasing / using things they may not have had they had a bit more experience or situational awareness. New reefers have very few places to turn to for good advice and lets face it, there are tons of gimmicks etc... out there with unscrupulous sales folk wanting to take their money. I'm thankful that I have a great lfs as well as this forum to ask questions and get the good answers!

Also, I agree that we are becoming more and more that "instant fix" society but along with that I also see those eager to always try the next "new thing" chemically sometimes spending well, frankly, a ton of money for something that nine times out of ten they know very little about but because so and so is trying it they must as well. Now I'm not referencing the comment made earlier on the bio pellets as I know nothing about them ( haven't even looked to see if its natural or some sort of chemical thing) and am not pointing at anyone who may currently be trying them. Just saying in general. I've seen posts of folks trying something out chemical wise that they just heard about, haven't researched at all yet they are willing to put their tank and it's inhabitants at risk simply because its the latest and greatest thing to try. This makes no sense to me. As has been mentioned before, crazy swings, tank crashes etc....

LittleDabOSalt · Aug 1, 2011

Anyone else? Love to hear from both sides of this, can't believe that with all the members here someone doesn't have something more to say on the topic.